Fixed night farce-how much longer

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, orion said:

I have no doubt it has .to be honest I doubt if I would go if swindon had to ride on a Monday. But as I said the crowds are down in general so if that is the norm then Belle Vue crowds would be down as well even if they kept to riding on a Friday not as a much as a  Monday of course but down never the less  .people dont want guests and rr but at the same time want speedway on a Fri or a sat .sadly at the current time we can't have both .I expect this rule might stop at end of the season and then we can go back to people moaning about riders missing and rr again and asking why don't they do something about it .

Simply do what is so obviously the thing to do when running a Motorsport business..

Run Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday late afternoon, with riders who are 100% available EVERY week

And run on EVERY Bank Holiday, THE most lucrative days to attract crowds out looking to be entertained..

Have a salary cap per team of £5k a match, meaning if they ran five man teams (to spread the riders)  the  'Mr Average' rider would earn £2k a week in the two matches over each weekend. 

At a pay scale structure of £1500, 1250, 1000, 750, 500 per night. I am pretty sure you would get plenty of interest from many riders of a more than 'reasonable level'..

Maybe not the 'superstars', but they earn vast amounts in Poland so wouldn't be interested anyway..

And Poland may pay more than £3k in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions for one meeting but you are often only one bad meeting away from earning ZERO the week after, so a No1 who is guaranteed £3k EVERY week would find it a decent proposition I would suggest..

Charge £15 per adult and nothing for kids 16 and under. Generating £14.4k after VAT for a 1200 crowd. Thus leaving £4.4k towards your running costs after paying out to the riders for two meetings...

1. Run on days which can generate the best crowds..

2. Run with teams full of riders who are 100% committed to British Speedway..

3. Charge a maximum of £15 to get in with kids free..

Surely worth a go? And let's face it if you tick those three boxes and it still doesn't work, then you might as well give up, (but at least you would know you tried)..

However, with the current operating model you simply have no chance of ever being successful..

 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by mikebv

[lucifer sam]

31 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Wednesday is also a bad night to get people out.

They need to change it. Thursdays as the main night, with Wolves and TV meetings on a Monday (unless one of the other teams prefers Mondays too).

It's much easier to get people out on a Thursday night as it is just one more day before the weekend.

I don't really see how Thursday is any different to Wednesday. 

Thursday is out, because Sheffield, Ipswich and Redcar all ride on a Thursday.  Hopefully the stupid situation where Swindon are allowed to ride on Thursday will only last this season, and Robins have to fall into line and run on Mondays and Wednesdays next year.

[Grachan]

Just now, lucifer sam said:

I don't really see how Thursday is any different to Wednesday. 

Thursday is out, because Sheffield, Ipswich and Redcar all ride on a Thursday.  Hopefully the stupid situation where Swindon are allowed to ride on Thursday will only last this season, and Robins have to fall into line and run on Mondays and Wednesdays next year.

I know from when I was younger, that Thursday was the night I started going out as the start of the "weekend". It's just more of a "going out" night than a Wednesday.

Wednesday is Denmark's night. Monday and Thursdays are the UK's nights. That is the main problem with Wednesday. Look at the problems at King's Lynn.

Unfortunately, your attitude is typical of the lower leagues, who, somehow, see themselves as more important than the top league. The top league should sort itself out, and the lower league clubs fit in with that. It's common sense.

If Wednesdays were priority for the UK then, sure, ride on Wednesdays. To be honest, we are lucky to have Thursdays ahead of Sweden and Denmark. It should be used.

Is there a reason why Ipswich, Sheffield and Redcar could not switch to weekends? Surely a better time for a lower league club.

[waytogo28]

38 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Charge £15 per adult and nothing for kids 16 and under. Generating £14.4k after VAT for a 1200 crowd. Thus leaving £4.4k towards your running costs after paying out to the riders for two meetings...

1. Run on days which can generate the best crowds..

2. Run with teams full of riders who are 100% committed to British Speedway..

3. Charge a maximum of £15 to get in with kids free..

Surely worth a go? And let's face it if you tick those three boxes and it still doesn't work, then you might as well give up, (but at least you would know you tried)..

However, with the current operating model you simply have no chance of ever being successful..

 

On the button in almost every respect. In fact every respect! But it is too simple for the BSPA and until the whole administrative structure of UK speedway is changed. I cannot see it prospering or even becoming viable. Sadly.

[lucifer sam]

3 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I know from when I was younger, that Thursday was the night I started going out as the start of the "weekend". It's just more of a "going out" night than a Wednesday.

Wednesday is Denmark's night. Monday and Thursdays are the UK's nights. That is the main problem with Wednesday. Look at the problems at King's Lynn.

Unfortunately, your attitude is typical of the lower leagues, who, somehow, see themselves as more important than the top league. The top league should sort itself out, and the lower league clubs fit in with that. It's common sense.

If Wednesdays were priority for the UK then, sure, ride on Wednesdays. To be honest, we are lucky to have Thursdays ahead of Sweden and Denmark. It should be used.

Is there a reason why Ipswich, Sheffield and Redcar could not switch to weekends? Surely a better time for a lower league club.

The whole problem stems from the top-flight using riders who are second division standard.  If the top-flight clubs want everyone to fit around them, then I suggest they go out and sign proper top-flight riders.  That would stop the need for doubling-up and allow more freedom on race-nights.

While doubling-up is so common, then fixed race-nights are needed to avoid a repeat of the total farce of last season.

And the agreement in place is quite clear.  Mondays and Wednesdays for the Premiership, and Thursdays to Sundays for the Championship. 

[Grachan]

1 minute ago, lucifer sam said:

The whole problem stems from the top-flight using riders who are second division standard.  If the top-flight clubs want everyone to fit around them, then I suggest they go out and sign proper top-flight riders.  That would stop the need for doubling-up and allow more freedom on race-nights.

While doubling-up is so common, then fixed race-nights are needed to avoid a repeat of the total farce of last season.

And the agreement in place is quite clear.  Mondays and Wednesdays for the Premiership, and Thursdays to Sundays for the Championship. 

Or maybe the problem is the lower league signing riders who are of first division standard. It is a two-way problem.

Nick Morris, Rory Schlein, Chris Harris, Steve Worrall in division two? Shouldn't be allowed.

The international agreement was Monday and Thursdays, which should have been adhered to, but there shouldn't be such a clash of riders in the two British leagues. If teams want to have riders the standard of Morris and Schlein then they should ride in the top league.

[lucifer sam]

10 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Or maybe the problem is the lower league signing riders who are of first division standard. It is a two-way problem.

Nick Morris, Rory Schlein, Chris Harris, Steve Worrall in division two? Shouldn't be allowed.

The international agreement was Monday and Thursdays, which should have been adhered to, but there shouldn't be such a clash of riders in the two British leagues. If teams want to have riders the standard of Morris and Schlein then they should ride in the top league.

Nice try, but there's far more many riders of second division standard doubling-up than those of first division standard.

Almost every second string and reserve in the top-flight is a second division standard rider.  Add in some second and third heat-leaders as well.

If the top-flight want first call, then it's about time they put out genuine top-flight teams.

If not, then the two leagues need to avoid racing on the same night.  And with three teams to one, it's clear Thursday has to be a Championship night.  It's an agreed night, and needs to be stuck to.  Swindon either need to run on Mondays and Wednesdays next year, or otherwise down drop to the Championship and race on Thursdays.

[The Third Man]

32 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I know from when I was younger, that Thursday was the night I started going out as the start of the "weekend". It's just more of a "going out" night than a Wednesday.

Wednesday is Denmark's night. Monday and Thursdays are the UK's nights. That is the main problem with Wednesday. Look at the problems at King's Lynn.

Unfortunately, your attitude is typical of the lower leagues, who, somehow, see themselves as more important than the top league. The top league should sort itself out, and the lower league clubs fit in with that. It's common sense.

If Wednesdays were priority for the UK then, sure, ride on Wednesdays. To be honest, we are lucky to have Thursdays ahead of Sweden and Denmark. It should be used.

Is there a reason why Ipswich, Sheffield and Redcar could not switch to weekends? Surely a better time for a lower league club.

So lets stuff three CL teams to suit the PL, nothing changes does it

don't you think if these three teams thought they could make more money running at weekends they would?

[Reliant Robin]

8 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Nice try, but there's far more many riders of second division standard doubling-up than those of first division standard.

Almost every second string and reserve in the top-flight is a second division standard rider.  Add in some second and third heat-leaders as well.

If the top-flight want first call, then it's about time they put out genuine top-flight teams.

If not, then the two leagues need to avoid racing on the same night.  And with three teams to one, it's clear Thursday has to be a Championship night.  It's an agreed night, and needs to be stuck to.  Swindon either need to run on Mondays and Wednesdays next year, or otherwise down drop to the Championship and race on Thursdays.

I'll bet most of them are assets of Premiership Clubs.

Do you not understand, it isn't just a Swindon issue. Not running on a Thursday and having to go with Wednesday's instead is causing problems generally across the top league. The whole point of having fixed race nights is being undone due to the strings being pulled by the lower league. There are guests and R/R continuing to be used on this race night, and re-arranging any postponed fixtures onto a Wednesday race night is becoming more and more difficult for those Clubs that would want to due to rider commitments on the continent.

The top league could take a similar stance to yours, claim Thursday and Friday and insist all Championship Clubs work around it or move up a league.

Alternatively, Clubs should be able to go back to racing on nights that suit their own business needs best. In the event of any clashes, priority goes to the division in which the rider is an asset, no matter whether re-arranged at a days notice or not. Give some worth to the asset system at least.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Reliant Robin

[lucifer sam]

5 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

So lets stuff three CL teams to suit the PL, nothing changes does it

don't you think if these three teams thought they could make more money running at weekends they would?

Yes, typical arrogance from a top-flight fan.

[Grachan]

3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Nice try, but there's far more many riders of second division standard doubling-up than those of first division standard.

Almost every second string and reserve in the top-flight is a second division standard rider.  Add in some second and third heat-leaders as well.

If the top-flight want first call, then it's about time they put out genuine top-flight teams.

If not, then the two leagues need to avoid racing on the same night.  And with three teams to one, it's clear Thursday has to be a Championship night.  It's an agreed night, and needs to be stuck to.  Swindon either need to run on Mondays and Wednesdays next year, or otherwise down drop to the Championship and race on Thursdays.

Usual problem from you, Rob. You are only interested in the club you watch rather than seeing the bigger picture.

No "nice try" about it. As I said, it's a two way thing with riders doubling up and doubling down.

I do think the top flight should be stronger though. Low points limits have hampered it for many years now, and meaning the bottom ends of sides are often filled out with NL riders. But we had 2-point riders at reserve as far back as the 80s, so it's not a new thing.

I do wonder if you would hold the same opinion if Oxford were in the top league still, however.

Swindon wil be using Mondays and Wednesdays in the latter part of the season, by the way.

[Chris116]

39 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Is there a reason why Ipswich, Sheffield and Redcar could not switch to weekends? Surely a better time for a lower league club.

Both Ipswich and Sheffield have Stock Car meetings on either Saturday or Sunday, so Speedway has to run during the week and it is a good idea to have at least 48 hours between events to enable any work on the track that needs doing. 

[Grachan]

6 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

So lets stuff three CL teams to suit the PL, nothing changes does it

don't you think if these three teams thought they could make more money running at weekends they would?

Those 3 PL team were quite happy to stuff the PL to suit the CL. So how has nothing changed?

The problem is the second division seeing itself as some sort of opposition. Why vote for a night when they know the first division will be against Denmark and some team (not including Swindon, by the way) will lose riders?

[Grachan]

Just now, Chris116 said:

Both Ipswich and Sheffield have Stock Car meetings on either Saturday or Sunday, so Speedway has to run during the week and it is a good idea to have at least 48 hours between events to enable any work on the track that needs doing. 

So have them riding on a Thursday and get rid of all this doubling-up and down nonsense.

The top league need to be on it's assigned nights - Mondays and Thursdays.

[lucifer sam]

2 minutes ago, Grachan said:

So have them riding on a Thursday and get rid of all this doubling-up and down nonsense.

The top league need to be on it's assigned nights - Mondays and Thursdays.

Sorry, but you've got it wrong.  Mondays and Wednesdays were the dates agreed at the AGM by the promoters from BOTH divisions - not Mondays and Thursdays.

Edited May 18, 2018 by lucifer sam

[Grachan]

3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Sorry, but you've got it wrong.  Mondays and Wednesdays were the dates agreed at the AGM by the promoters from BOTH divisions - not Mondays and Thursdays.

Yeah. I know. Geniuses, aren't they?

But Mondays and Thursdays are the days when the UK has priority, so they would be the obvious nights to have the top flight.

[Reliant Robin]

4 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Sorry, but you've got it wrong.  Mondays and Wednesdays were the dates agreed at the AGM by the promoters from BOTH divisions - not Mondays and Thursdays.

In turn continuing to damage the top league in order to protect 3 clubs in the lower league. Nothing changes.

It had been agreed prior to AGM that Mondays & Thursday's would be Premiership nights. That's why they are the protected days, as requested by BSPA, within the International Speedway League bodies agreement

[A ORLOV]

10 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Sorry, but you've got it wrong.  Mondays and Wednesdays were the dates agreed at the AGM by the promoters from BOTH divisions - not Mondays and Thursdays.

And look what a cock up it is with PL riders missing.

[Aces51]

Unless there is a dramatic upturn in crowds for those who have suffered from having to change their race nights I can see a serious risk to FRN's continuing next year.  Teams could be lost to the PL making it no longer viable.

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

Unless there is a dramatic upturn in crowds for those who have suffered from having to change their race nights I can see a serious risk to FRN's continuing next year.  Teams could be lost to the PL making it no longer viable.

The sad thing is, some supporters of Second Division teams will merely see that as a victory for their own league.