Popular Post mikebv Posted June 29, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: So, you basically saying f-off FIM nobody is taking priority over British Speedway? With Sweden given priority on Tuesday, Denmark Wednesday and Poland Friday, Saturday and Sunday how is your little plan gonna stand up??? Where do you stand with Robert Lambert and Dan Bewley likely to get Ekstraliga contracts next season? You want them banned right??? You want rid of Brady Kurtz, Jack Holder, Max Frick, etc just because they have Ekstraliga jobs. You'd ban rider's for signing with Polish Liga 1 and 2 teams?? The FIM have implemented priority race days for a reason, British Speedway doesn't get any for weekend days so we have to work with what we've got. We're not in a position or have enough rider's available to force total 100% commitment to UK fixtures except for Monday and Thursday fixtures. You throw in a 100% commitment rule there will be far more teams fold than continuing with fixed race night's. I liken British Speedways problems to the British Superbikes series' predicament in the early nineties.... When Carl Fogarty was in his pomp and Sky fell in love with the World Superbikes series, giving it the massive exposure which resulted in 'Foggy' becoming a well known sportsman across all mainstream sport followers. BSB didnt try and compete. How could it? WSB had the best riders, BSB had the next level down. But instead of trying to match the WSB they ensured they delivered a great weekend of racing with the calibre of rider that they had which then grew their own 'brand'... They also realised that inevitably their best would eventually go off to seek fame and fortune in the WSB or Moto GP and test themselves in the 'higher standard' of racing. Therefore BSB invested in plenty of track time over their race weekends for the next generation of riders. With standard 'out of the box' one make Championships included to keep costs down and attract 'entry level' riders in.. The result? Thousands still attend their race weekends and plenty of British lads have made succesful careers racing at no more than a 'domestic' level.. If the likes of Dan and Robert can earn vast amounts elsewhere and improve quicker by racing against the Worlds best then good luck to them. 100% let them ride in the 'WSB' that is Poland.. However any rider wanting to ride in the 'BSB' of British Speedway needs to understand that British Speedway, and that alone, is his priority.. British Speedway has two options... Run itself like a 'proper team sport' on days and nights it's fan base can attend, paying for itself from an income delivered via a price point the fan base sees as value for money, and be as radical in delivering this as they need to be.. Or... Carry on doing what it always has.... And we know how tremendously successful that has been... The current model simply does not work and is miles away from what they need.. And as is blatantly obvious. The sport is down to the bare bones of its fan base.. Opening Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday days, are a one million percent fundamental necessity for any business running in the entertainment sector, which is unsurprisingly why Poland (and Motor Racing in general) choose them! (How strange?!).... Simple choice... Find a way to use the weekends more, and let all tracks run on nights they know will get their biggest income... Or.... Carry on cobbling together Mickey Mouse Team Speedway meetings in front of an ever reducing fan base, running the meetings on days/nights to suit the riders but not their customers, at a far too high a price point for those customers to recognise it as value for money. I would humbly suggest that if they keep doing the latter, it can really only end one way.. Edited June 29, 2018 by mikebv 8 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 9 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: What if the Championship clubs say no thanks to 1 big league - whether there is 5 6 7 or 8 left sort yourselves out..... Therein lies another problem in itself. Genuine question, as I don't really follow the Chanpionship anymore - what is the general view on crowds like? And are teams believed to be making profit (or at least breaking even) or are they running at a loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, Najjer said: Therein lies another problem in itself. Genuine question, as I don't really follow the Chanpionship anymore - what is the general view on crowds like? And are teams believed to be making profit (or at least breaking even) or are they running at a loss? A number only getting crowds of 3-500 For them 1 big league would likely cost more and therefore I cant see them going for it My team Ipswich I estimate 11-1200 is the norm so we may be in a better position than most but I can see us showing loyalty to the Championship needs when it comes to any crunch moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 6 hours ago, mikebv said: I liken British Speedways problems to the British Superbikes series' predicament in the early nineties.... When Carl Fogarty was in his pomp and Sky fell in love with the World Superbikes series, giving it the massive exposure which resulted in 'Foggy' becoming a well known sportsman across all mainstream sport followers. BSB didnt try and compete. How could it? WSB had the best riders, BSB had the next level down. But instead of trying to match the WSB they ensured they delivered a great weekend of racing with the calibre of rider that they had which then grew their own 'brand'... They also realised that inevitably their best would eventually go off to seek fame and fortune in the WSB or Moto GP and test themselves in the 'higher standard' of racing. Therefore BSB invested in plenty of track time over their race weekends for the next generation of riders. With standard 'out of the box' one make Championships included to keep costs down and attract 'entry level' riders in.. The result? Thousands still attend their race weekends and plenty of British lads have made succesful careers racing at no more than a 'domestic' level.. If the likes of Dan and Robert can earn vast amounts elsewhere and improve quicker by racing against the Worlds best then good luck to them. 100% let them ride in the 'WSB' that is Poland.. However any rider wanting to ride in the 'BSB' of British Speedway needs to understand that British Speedway, and that alone, is his priority.. British Speedway has two options... Run itself like a 'proper team sport' on days and nights it's fan base can attend, paying for itself from an income delivered via a price point the fan base sees as value for money, and be as radical in delivering this as they need to be.. Or... Carry on doing what it always has.... And we know how tremendously successful that has been... The current model simply does not work and is miles away from what they need.. And as is blatantly obvious. The sport is down to the bare bones of its fan base.. Opening Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday days, are a one million percent fundamental necessity for any business running in the entertainment sector, which is unsurprisingly why Poland (and Motor Racing in general) choose them! (How strange?!).... Simple choice... Find a way to use the weekends more, and let all tracks run on nights they know will get their biggest income... Or.... Carry on cobbling together Mickey Mouse Team Speedway meetings in front of an ever reducing fan base, running the meetings on days/nights to suit the riders but not their customers, at a far too high a price point for those customers to recognise it as value for money. I would humbly suggest that if they keep doing the latter, it can really only end one way.. Regardless of opinion, that just isn't possible and against FIM rule. Simple as that. British Speedway cannot force any rider to prioritise. Get called up by Swedish, Danish, Polish leagues on their race day's British clubs have no choice but to release the rider. You can't just make up some nonsensical idea and disregard regulations. All that will happen is rider's will sign British contracts, get race sharp, sign secret contracts abroad and when the seasons kick off abroad in May throw British Speedway into a frenzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 6 hours ago, Najjer said: Therein lies another problem in itself. Genuine question, as I don't really follow the Chanpionship anymore - what is the general view on crowds like? And are teams believed to be making profit (or at least breaking even) or are they running at a loss? It’s really not a one league problem tho. You only have to see the pleading reports from Championship and NL promoters to know that no one league is in a better shape. the problem is the standard is dropping in the top flight but generally stronger in the lower league than years gone by yet prices are ridiculous for both tiers. Championship is overpriced imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 37 minutes ago, stevebrum said: It’s really not a one league problem tho. You only have to see the pleading reports from Championship and NL promoters to know that no one league is in a better shape. the problem is the standard is dropping in the top flight but generally stronger in the lower league than years gone by yet prices are ridiculous for both tiers. Championship is overpriced imho. I quite agree, and that was why I was wondering how the Championship crowds were. Rumours of 300-500 is frankly shocking. Using Somerset as an example, it was £15 in the 2nd division and now £17 on the top division. So is the top division under priced or the 2nd division over priced as there is still a considerable gap in standard between them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Najjer said: I quite agree, and that was why I was wondering how the Championship crowds were. Rumours of 300-500 is frankly shocking. Using Somerset as an example, it was £15 in the 2nd division and now £17 on the top division. So is the top division under priced or the 2nd division over priced as there is still a considerable gap in standard between them. It’s always been the middle tier that is the most selfish of the leagues. All leagues want only what’s best for themselves, that’s why the sport is in such a precarious state, and been heading that way for many a year now. How they arrest the issue is anyone’s guess but no one league is to blame. Whatever IS done should ensure it’s suits all parties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Najjer said: I quite agree, and that was why I was wondering how the Championship crowds were. Rumours of 300-500 is frankly shocking. Using Somerset as an example, it was £15 in the 2nd division and now £17 on the top division. So is the top division under priced or the 2nd division over priced as there is still a considerable gap in standard between them. £18.50 at gate,or £17.50+.50p booking fee at Armadale,certainly curtailed my visits as a regular neutral visitor,but if that what it takes to survive in Championship there is no way they would want to move up IMO . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy jimmy Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 I think there are some good ideas on this thread, especially Daniel Smith. There needs to be a top league and a second league, but the fixed race night has to include a Friday. Belle Vue and Somerset would be more viable on that night. Rye House and Leicester are never top league circuits, they don’t have the support, whilst Ipswich and Glasgow certainly do. Ipswich on a Thursday and Glasgow on a Friday would work. The fundamental problem though is a lack of UK riders to fill the teams, we need to generate more of them so we are less reliant on riders who will have competing continental fixtures, even the mid range ones. Watering down to one big league only means more and more teams racing to crowds of 500 as their support dwindles due to the lesser and lesser quality on show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 4, 2018 Report Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) On 6/29/2018 at 4:00 AM, mikebv said: I liken British Speedways problems to the British Superbikes series' predicament in the early nineties.... When Carl Fogarty was in his pomp and Sky fell in love with the World Superbikes series, giving it the massive exposure which resulted in 'Foggy' becoming a well known sportsman across all mainstream sport followers. BSB didnt try and compete. How could it? WSB had the best riders, BSB had the next level down. But instead of trying to match the WSB they ensured they delivered a great weekend of racing with the calibre of rider that they had which then grew their own 'brand'... They also realised that inevitably their best would eventually go off to seek fame and fortune in the WSB or Moto GP and test themselves in the 'higher standard' of racing. Therefore BSB invested in plenty of track time over their race weekends for the next generation of riders. With standard 'out of the box' one make Championships included to keep costs down and attract 'entry level' riders in.. The result? Thousands still attend their race weekends and plenty of British lads have made succesful careers racing at no more than a 'domestic' level.. If the likes of Dan and Robert can earn vast amounts elsewhere and improve quicker by racing against the Worlds best then good luck to them. 100% let them ride in the 'WSB' that is Poland.. However any rider wanting to ride in the 'BSB' of British Speedway needs to understand that British Speedway, and that alone, is his priority.. British Speedway has two options... Run itself like a 'proper team sport' on days and nights it's fan base can attend, paying for itself from an income delivered via a price point the fan base sees as value for money, and be as radical in delivering this as they need to be.. Or... Carry on doing what it always has.... And we know how tremendously successful that has been... The current model simply does not work and is miles away from what they need.. And as is blatantly obvious. The sport is down to the bare bones of its fan base.. Opening Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday days, are a one million percent fundamental necessity for any business running in the entertainment sector, which is unsurprisingly why Poland (and Motor Racing in general) choose them! (How strange?!).... Simple choice... Find a way to use the weekends more, and let all tracks run on nights they know will get their biggest income... Or.... Carry on cobbling together Mickey Mouse Team Speedway meetings in front of an ever reducing fan base, running the meetings on days/nights to suit the riders but not their customers, at a far too high a price point for those customers to recognise it as value for money. I would humbly suggest that if they keep doing the latter, it can really only end one way.. im not saying all these are the right ideas but we should be looking into them but as we keep seeing the usual same responses " you cant do this, you cant do that, the riders need to earn a living, bla bla bla " the sport is almost rock bottom so really nothing is off limits and only this poster and j chapman seem to be offering any real ideas the rest just sound like a speedway AGM where tinkering with small things are seen a major restructuring, speedway "as we know it" in Britain is all but dead so nothing should be dismissed no matter who it upsets, everything riders, tracks, bikes, finances, presentation, league structure and even looking into some of the people who work within speedway, are they the right people ? the whole lot should be discussed and acted on in an AGM straight after the last match of the season Edited July 4, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: im not saying all these are the right ideas but we should be looking into them but as we keep seeing the usual same responses " you cant do this, you cant do that, the riders need to earn a living, bla bla bla " the sport is almost rock bottom so really nothing is off limits and only this poster and j chapman seem to be offering any real ideas the rest just sound like a speedway AGM where tinkering with small things are seen a major restructuring, speedway "as we know it" in Britain is all but dead so nothing should be dismissed no matter who it upsets, everything riders, tracks, bikes, finances, presentation, league structure and even looking into some of the people who work within speedway, are they the right people ? the whole lot should be discussed and acted on in an AGM straight after the last match of the season Cheers for the comment Dean... Not difficult to suggest 'simple' ideas when you have so many fundamental issues wrong though to be fair.. One that always truly amazes me is when promoters and fans say that there are not enough riders to cover all the team slots yet they still persist in running seven positions per team... And therefore paying out seven wages that not many it appears can actually afford... In my business if my sales don't meet my forecast expectations I have to reduce hours as my wage budget % is fixed, and therefore based on the sales performance level.. If I exceed my forecast then I can increase hours as my sterling spend capability naturally increases.. Therefore basic business logic would suggest that if you cannot afford to pay 14 people per night, then DONT EMPLOY 14 PEOPLE PER NIGHT!!.... And definitely if you cannot afford to spend more than £5k per night on your employees then DONT SPEND MORE THAN £5K PER NIGHT ON YOUR EMPLOYEES!!.... In the real world you forecast your sales, set the budget spend which will provide you with the required profit return, and then produce an ever evolving and improving operating model to deliver this profit.. Maybe British Speedway should run itself on those 'very, very basic' lines...? Edited July 5, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Tai makes an interesting comment about Monday night speedway in the UK in this weeks SS. ”I’ve said it over and over and over again. Monday night is speedway night, everyone knows it’s on a Monday night. I know there’s different issues with different clubs but if you can’t race on a Monday, then don’t race in the Premiership. Any clubs that want to race on a Monday, come to the Premiership. Make it professional. Sweden works, Poland works.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 9:57 PM, THE DEAN MACHINE said: im not saying all these are the right ideas but we should be looking into them but as we keep seeing the usual same responses " you cant do this, you cant do that, the riders need to earn a living, bla bla bla " the sport is almost rock bottom so really nothing is off limits and only this poster and j chapman seem to be offering any real ideas the rest just sound like a speedway AGM where tinkering with small things are seen a major restructuring, speedway "as we know it" in Britain is all but dead so nothing should be dismissed no matter who it upsets, everything riders, tracks, bikes, finances, presentation, league structure and even looking into some of the people who work within speedway, are they the right people ? the whole lot should be discussed and acted on in an AGM straight after the last match of the season You've hit on one of speedway's biggest problems here Dean and it's a mentality shared by many fans. A successful business identifies the way it wishes to operate then works out a way to overcome any hurdles. Speedway goes about it the opposite way and thinks of the hurdles first and immediately gives up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Tai makes an interesting comment about Monday night speedway in the UK in this weeks SS. ”I’ve said it over and over and over again. Monday night is speedway night, everyone knows it’s on a Monday night. I know there’s different issues with different clubs but if you can’t race on a Monday, then don’t race in the Premiership. Any clubs that want to race on a Monday, come to the Premiership. Make it professional. Sweden works, Poland works.” Tai has said a few years ago that Monday was ideal as it meant at that time he would race Sunday, Monday and Tuesday in the three countries, and then have four days prep, training and rest time.. Ideal for the riders maybe... Maybe not for fans though...? Edited July 12, 2018 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, stevebrum said: Tai makes an interesting comment about Monday night speedway in the UK in this weeks SS. ”I’ve said it over and over and over again. Monday night is speedway night, everyone knows it’s on a Monday night. I know there’s different issues with different clubs but if you can’t race on a Monday, then don’t race in the Premiership. Any clubs that want to race on a Monday, come to the Premiership. Make it professional. Sweden works, Poland works.” Sweden works??!! Despite not having 5 weeks of invoices being paid!! " Monday night is speedway night. Everyone knows its on a Monday night." Well it might be in Wolverhampton and very occasionally at Poole but hardly anywhere else. Edited July 12, 2018 by Skidder1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Tai has said a few years ago that Monday was ideal as it meant at that time he would race Sunday, Monday and Tuesday in the three countries, and then have four days prep, training and rest time.. Ideal for the riders maybe... Maybe not for fans though...? EMIL Sayfutdinov told us in Hallstavik that he only rides on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. About 40 meetings and he is happy with that. Spends the rest of the week with his young family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Monday is speedway night that's obviously why only one PL team chose it when they had a free choice. Nothing interesting about those comments just his self interest because it happens to suit him and a disregard for the future of the sport in the UK. Edited July 12, 2018 by Aces51 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Sweden works??!! Despite not having 5 weeks of invoices being paid!! " Monday night is speedway night. Everyone knows its on a Monday night." Well it might be in Wolverhampton and very occasionally at Poole but hardly anywhere else. He did add the not been paid caveat after that quote! of course speedway is Monday night, it’s been the prominent night for TV which I’m assuming what he means. and I’m sure that’s exactly what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted August 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 So Somerset now allowed to ride on a night other than FRN..... Erm..... rye house spring to mind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted August 28, 2018 Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 I think the promoters at rye House ruffled some feathers at the old Boys club, so they were never going to get any favours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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