Fixed race nights... early indications!!!

[Phil The Ace]

What do we think now we're a few month into the season? 

 

We have since found out Denmark take priority over Wednesday's meetings. So we've already had guests in 1 meetings. 3 to be precise. 

 

I can only speak for belle vue but our crowds have fell probably approx 500 ppl moving to Monday from Friday. And that's when we have had nice weather and the world champ in town. 

 

Clearly for my club who have had to change race nights it's not working. What about the others that have changed what's your crowd like?????

[Daniel Smith]

From most reports the signs have been encouraging. Shame our league went with Monday's & Wednesday. Had it of been Thursday's I'm sure Belle Vue would have gone with that and would of been less damaging. 

Having said that, Belle Vue is proof that a state of the art stadium still can't pull in punters to make it pay. There's far more wrong with the sport than just a clean and tidy seat. Promoting is evidently void for almost every club.

It still amazes me that huge city clubs are pulling similar or smaller attendances than small town clubs though.

Belle Vue, Wolverhampton etc should be double the likes of King's Lynn, Poole etc but these promotions are failing the club's.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Daniel Smith

[lastword]

32 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

What do we think now we're a few month into the season? 

 

We have since found out Denmark take priority over Wednesday's meetings. So we've already had guests in 1 meetings. 3 to be precise. 

 

I can only speak for belle vue but our crowds have fell probably approx 500 ppl moving to Monday from Friday. And that's when we have had nice weather and the world champ in town. 

 

Clearly for my club who have had to change race nights it's not working. What about the others that have changed what's your crowd like?????

Hi,Phil,

As a regular at Aces meetings I agree that the attendance appears below expectations.

But do you have access to attendance figures or are you just taking a guess?

Edited May 5, 2018 by lastword

[Catalan]

Do you think the start stop beginning to season is not helping at the moment?

Also feel the crap standard of the league not helping.

If I wanted 2nd division riders I would go to a championship club.

[Phil The Ace]

8 minutes ago, lastword said:

Hi,Phil,

As a regular at Aces meetings I agree that the attendance appears below expectations.

But do you have access to attendance figures or are you just taking a guess?

Just a guess mate. Nobody as access to attendces. So it seems anyway 

[Najjer]

42 minutes ago, sugarray said:

Do you think the start stop beginning to season is not helping at the moment?

Also feel the crap standard of the league not helping.

If I wanted 2nd division riders I would go to a championship club.

The price to attend vs. The standard on offer is the biggest stumbling block. £17 for 15 x 1 minute races no matter what way you look at it isn't great value for money. 

As a comparison it makes the 2nd division even more of a rip off as they're getting a lot less of a standard for around £15.

In answer to the original question though of how is fixed race nights working out, I think it will benefit Somerset. Whilst it was nice to end the week at Speedway instead of mid week, the traffic and surrounding areas on a Friday as a nightmare at the best of times. I can't see any reason why crowds would drop at Somerset, they should only prosper.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Najjer

[wealdstone]

As Ric Frost said before he quit in exasperation   BSPA not even competent to operate a burger van

[mrss]

The problem with British speedway is its a professional sport being run by amateurs.

[ouch]

The big problem with speedway and it’s difficult for us to understand is that people don’t like speedway. 

We’ve all had the “is that still going” chat and even with that they don’t come again. Similarly I have mates that I keep asking to come along without success. Belle Vue have done school visits, work visits, radio adverts, city wide posters, been on both local evening news channels, been on Sky, ran cheap entrance meetings both Aces and Colts, we’ve been in shops, we’ve had posters for fans to give out, the list goes on and on but people just look and think it’s not for them. 

The demographic of fans is and has always been the most precarious as once money gets tight then speedway or similar is the first to go. Multi channel tv and the screen society has diverted their attention way from a night at the speedway. 

Dont get me wrong though the powers that be have done a great job of turning away fans, a mind boggling achievement in my eyes. 

2000-3000 crowds are still possible as we had only two decades or so ago, if the current group of promoters stop being dicks. 

 

 

[Hawk127]

Fixed race nights arevOK as long as they are the right nights for the club. The way it is set up now is simply putting a sticking plaster over what is so wrong with speedway in this country. Currently pandering and be dictated to by other European nations it really is time to think about what is good for British Speedway and get on with it. As it stands you still have doubling up, race nights that do not appeal to many, no weekly speedway fixtures for many clubs and with irregular meetings the likelihood of more fans drifting away. When will the custodians of this sport start to think about what they are doing. If those clubs that voted for less meetings were making losses with home and away twice, the chances are they will be out of business by the end of this season. I could see a situation where a few clubs find it no longer viable to continue and in 2019 they may have no option but to have just one league plus the NL in order for clubs to cover the stadium rental.

[Aces51]

There is obviously much wrong with the sport but the there is no significant difference between this year and last year so the only explanation for the significant drop in crowd numbers at Belle Vue must be the change in race night.

Monday may work for a team like Wolverhampton, who have a long history of racing on that night but it is probably the worst night of the week for the entertainment and leisure industries. That is why many offer incentives to try to attract people in. If you want the best chance of getting a decent slice of the leisure pound you have a far better chance on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday. I suspect that it was for those very reasons that the previous promotion changed from Monday, which was forced on them by their landlord and never successful, to Friday.

It may be that as the season progresses crowds will improve but I have my doubts. In fact, when the TV coverage starts in a couple of weeks I think that is going to tempt some more fans to stay away especially if the weather is bad.

[cityrebel]

The crowds are well down at rye house since the switch. Financial suicide springs to mind. Although it's strengthened the championship by reducing the doubling up.

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, Phil The Ace said:

What do we think now we're a few month into the season? 

 

We have since found out Denmark take priority over Wednesday's meetings. So we've already had guests in 1 meetings. 3 to be precise. 

 

I can only speak for belle vue but our crowds have fell probably approx 500 ppl moving to Monday from Friday. And that's when we have had nice weather and the world champ in town. 

 

Clearly for my club who have had to change race nights it's not working. What about the others that have changed what's your crowd like?????

Phil, everyone knew Denmark had priority for Wednesdays...

It's their night...

Hence British Speedway was granted Monday and Thursdays as theirs...

Then they changed..

Why? Well, once again, the tail wagged the dog...

[RobMcCaffery]

Of course if you're a regular Monday or Wednesday night track then the new arrangement's great. That takes care of three tracks, while Swindon have mainly kept their Thursdays. Now what about the other half of the league? 

The argument to adopt fixed race nights was to avoid guests caused by fixture clashes. The situation with Denmark blows that straight out of the water. 

 

[RobMcCaffery]

1 minute ago, mikebv said:

 

Why? Well, once again, the tail wagged the dog...

If that 'tail' didn't keep supplying your league with tracks you'd be in even a far worse position than you are now. 

[mikebv]

24 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

If that 'tail' didn't keep supplying your league with tracks you'd be in even a far worse position than you are now. 

The result of a totally nonsense operating model which benefits no one....

Running any business which shares employees with others, and whose availabilty dictates to their employer when the operation can 'open for business', is pretty much doomed to failure I would suggest..

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, lastword said:

Hi,Phil,

As a regular at Aces meetings I agree that the attendance appears below expectations.

But do you have access to attendance figures or are you just taking a guess?

I have been once this year, (Pooles 'all conquering' septet tempted me)...

And have to say the crowd wasn't great even for that meeting and from what I have heard even less have attended the other Prem matches..

Over the past two years the Grandstand has looked most weeks I have been there around two thirds to three quarters full...

Against Poole I would suggest it was around half full...

And as the Grandstand holds around 1800 that alone is a few hundred missing...

In the South Stand where I go, I would suggest at least 150 - 200 less given the gaps between spectators that last year weren't there..

The 'Entertainment and Leisure' business do their promotions and 'specials' on a Monday for a reason...

And I am sure it's more necessity than any 'enthusiastic' choice that makes them do that...

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by mikebv

[mikebv]

4 hours ago, ouch said:

The big problem with speedway and it’s difficult for us to understand is that people don’t like speedway. 

We’ve all had the “is that still going” chat and even with that they don’t come again. Similarly I have mates that I keep asking to come along without success. Belle Vue have done school visits, work visits, radio adverts, city wide posters, been on both local evening news channels, been on Sky, ran cheap entrance meetings both Aces and Colts, we’ve been in shops, we’ve had posters for fans to give out, the list goes on and on but people just look and think it’s not for them. 

The demographic of fans is and has always been the most precarious as once money gets tight then speedway or similar is the first to go. Multi channel tv and the screen society has diverted their attention way from a night at the speedway. 

Dont get me wrong though the powers that be have done a great job of turning away fans, a mind boggling achievement in my eyes. 

2000-3000 crowds are still possible as we had only two decades or so ago, if the current group of promoters stop being dicks. 

 

 

You make many good points...

But one of the major issues the Sport has is exactly that it does all the 'Promotion' at such a very low level...

All well meaning I am sure, but visiting Schools or standing in a Supermarket lobby with club memorabilia on a folding table is miles away from a 21st Century advertising plan..

Instead of all doing their own advertising 'small time' at a local level, the Sport finally needs to run a properly executed National Marketing plan to see if that will change its fortunes..

The Nineteen Prem and Championship clubs should all have a directive to put £50k into a fund to hire a Company to advertise the Sport nationally..

To deliver the money, it would mean that over the 28 matches in the Prem you would need to trim your costs by less than £2k a match so I would suggest doable..

That would release £950k to hire a marketing company...

With crowds so low and so many people who 'used to go' living on the doorstep of so many tracks it surely would be a huge opportunity for some 'proper' marketing Company to make plenty of money on a commission basis.... They grow crowds and income, and get a share of the spoils...

Instead of paying almost a Million quid to todays riders who, with the greatest of respect, have little impact to crowd levels, it surely now is the time to invest that money in a Company that could increase those crowds..

[g13webb]

6 hours ago, mikebv said:

You make many good points...

But one of the major issues the Sport has is exactly that it does all the 'Promotion' at such a very low level...

All well meaning I am sure, but visiting Schools or standing in a Supermarket lobby with club memorabilia on a folding table is miles away from a 21st Century advertising plan..

Instead of all doing their own advertising 'small time' at a local level, the Sport finally needs to run a properly executed National Marketing plan to see if that will change its fortunes..

The Nineteen Prem and Championship clubs should all have a directive to put £50k into a fund to hire a Company to advertise the Sport nationally..

To deliver the money, it would mean that over the 28 matches in the Prem you would need to trim your costs by less than £2k a match so I would suggest doable..

That would release £950k to hire a marketing company...

With crowds so low and so many people who 'used to go' living on the doorstep of so many tracks it surely would be a huge opportunity for some 'proper' marketing Company to make plenty of money on a commission basis.... They grow crowds and income, and get a share of the spoils...

Instead of paying almost a Million quid to todays riders who, with the greatest of respect, have little impact to crowd levels, it surely now is the time to invest that money in a Company that could increase those crowds..

Brilliant proactive ideas that would put the sport into the shop window and promote the sport on a professional level.    Like you say, in this day and age  we need to move with the times.   Unfortunately the BSPA don't think like that, all their ideas are short term and most  are governed by personal gains.   Promoting on a professional level would be a sure-fire way to connect with the public and that could only benefit the Sport and the Promotors in the long run.

Going back to your original question and making conclusions about fixed race nights  (FRN)  is difficult.   The actual  Wednesday race night has not changed much for Lynn,  but because of the adverse weather, we have only been able to run 2 meetings, and one of them  we were missing 3 riders,  so without those FRN we could have changed the day for something more suitable.  I feel at the moment the  FRN appears to be working, but it will become  harder to sustain.   There have been many cancellations, and to fit them all in to the FRN schedule will be difficult.

I can understand your concerns,  Mondays  must be the worse night possible to hold your home meetings.   Belle Vue as a club, don't appear to have the persuasion powers as say Sheffield or Ipswich, who voiced their choice of race-night ,  when it would have obviously benefit the sport to comply with our European friends..  I find it laughable that teams like Sheffield can run with 7 riders who race in both divisions have that must power.    How can this sport be taken seriously when that happens.  

But not to worry,   as with all new ideas,  they will be changed next season and we'll have something else to  chew over... 

[Aces51]

So far as I know Belle Vue, as a new promotion, didn't have a vote at the AGM. 

It will be interesting to see the crowd tomorrow. Generally, we get good crowds on a bank holiday and particularly against Wolves. The weather is going to be good, it starts at noon, so no problems with school the next day for the kids and Belle Vue took over the complete front and back pages of the local paper to advertise the meeting. If the crowd is as good as on previous bank holidays it will be more evidence that the problem is the change of race night.