Aces High Posted May 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Fromafar said: Is Cook saving himself for GP and Poland? ,pretty mediocre start to season IMO It's an odd one but I suspect it is a combination of a lack of rides due to not doubling up and being cautious not to miss the GP's. There have been flashes of last seasons form but he hasn't really put together a full meeting yet for the us like Max and Dan have. I suspect the best is yet to come, his form in Poland improving is a good sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, magnificentseven said: Alarm bells ringing for Wolves. We are really missing Freddie as Jacob is struggling away. Heeps and Greaves struggling too. Time for a shuffle of the pack. Alarm bells aren't ringing at all. We have only had 2 away meetings, one which we took an away point and Jacob top scored with double figures. Alarmist post with no valid back up. Just to add no surprise at the loss at the NSS, we are pants there. The margin was very poor tho. Edited May 8, 2018 by stevebrum added detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 43 minutes ago, Aces High said: It's an odd one but I suspect it is a combination of a lack of rides due to not doubling up and being cautious not to miss the GP's. There have been flashes of last seasons form but he hasn't really put together a full meeting yet for the us like Max and Dan have. I suspect the best is yet to come, his form in Poland improving is a good sign. Having watched his Polish meetings half of the guys he manages to beat ,I have never heard of and are Polish juniors.He doesn't look fast enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, acef said: If every track did it like this the sport would be booming here. You would have thought so... but, until Belle Vue are booming, it doesn't really hold water unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 The lack of a proper No 1 is going to make for a pretty mediocre season for Wolves. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 On 04/05/2018 at 6:52 PM, Beowulf said: Yes, that is what the Wolves web-site says. With regard to the tie, I am not hopeful, we really don't go well at Belle Vue. Out at the first hurdle I think. Sadly the result is no surprise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 9 hours ago, BWitcher said: You would have thought so... but, until Belle Vue are booming, it doesn't really hold water unfortunately. I didn't say Belle Vue were booming every week. I was referring to yesterday specifically, something that doesn't happen each week and that includes Belle Vue. But you keep being a busy fool. Maybe next time you can bite your tongue and give credit where its due instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, acef said: I didn't say Belle Vue were booming every week. I was referring to yesterday specifically, something that doesn't happen each week and that includes Belle Vue. But you keep being a busy fool. Maybe next time you can bite your tongue and give credit where its due instead. I think you misunderstood me. Belle Vue is an awesome track, the racing there is fantastic most if not all weeks. If that place isn't booming every week, what hope is there for the sport? It should be booming every week, it deserves to be booming every week. If I still lived in the UK I'd be going there as much as possible, not just when Wolves visited. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 10 hours ago, BWitcher said: I think you misunderstood me. Belle Vue is an awesome track, the racing there is fantastic most if not all weeks. If that place isn't booming every week, what hope is there for the sport? It should be booming every week, it deserves to be booming every week. If I still lived in the UK I'd be going there as much as possible, not just when Wolves visited. I think you are spot on with that assessment, if the entertainment served up not just on Monday does not tempt people through the turnstiles speedway has a real problem, having said that ive seen several polish meetings this season and overall the racing has been very processional but look at their crowds, doesn't add up to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, bellevueace said: I think you are spot on with that assessment, if the entertainment served up not just on Monday does not tempt people through the turnstiles speedway has a real problem, having said that ive seen several polish meetings this season and overall the racing has been very processional but look at their crowds, doesn't add up to me. Same reasons why the PDC Darts is "booming" and the BDO darts is "on its arse"... Marketing and Hype! Two Governing Bodies in exactly the same sport, sometimes using the same competitors, but one is ran by an independent leadership team, made up of successful business people who bring in experts in sports administration and marketing to bring credibility, integrity and 'Brand awareness'. 'Brand awareness' that results in excellent TV coverage and sponsorship from National Companies, eager to be associated with it knowing that their target audience will be in attendance. This then allows admission charges to be set at a level that encourages rather than dissuades that attendance.. Whilst the other tries to 'self govern' and is led by (no doubt) well meaning people, who may be successful in their own field, but simply don't possess the necessary skill sets to administrate and effectively promote a National Sport, nor, it would appear to have the acumen to surround themselves with the people needed who can.... Which all results in 'cobbled together' Competitions, of very little worth, with very little TV presence, meaning hardly any major sponsorship is forthcoming as the demographic (and total numbers) of the audience doesnt justify the outlay... This then leads to admission costs which inhibit rather than attract followers as they have to be set at a level that tries to recover the costs involved from an ever dwindling fanbase.. The most concerning barometer of where the Sport is for me, is the simple fact that at many tracks kids are allowed in for free or just a nominal amount, yet there are hardly any of them there... "Even free Speedway isnt deemed to be worth attending", seems to be the clear feedback... It really now has to be time for the Sport to go "all in" and get itself a proper marketing company with a strong track record to promote it.. Redirect some of the millions it currently pays out to riders each season and see if it can be marketed or 'hyped' to get people in through its doors.. It is said that the definition of insanity is "Always doing the same thing over and over again, but each time you do it, you are expecting a different result".. If Speedway doesn't change, (and radically) soon, the men with the straight jackets might not be too far away... And maybe, sadly, followed closely behind by the undertakers..? Edited May 10, 2018 by mikebv 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, mikebv said: Same reasons why the PDC Darts is "booming" and the BDO darts is "on its arse"... Marketing and Hype! Exactly the same sport, but one is ran by an independent leadership team, made up of successful business people who bring in experts in sports administration and marketing to bring credibility, integrity and 'Brand awareness'. 'Brand awareness' that results in excellent TV coverage and sponsorship from National Companies, eager to be associated with it knowing that their target audience will be in attendance. This then allows admission charges to be set at a level that encourages rather than dissuades that attendance.. Whilst the other tries to 'self govern' and is led by (no doubt) well meaning people, who maybe succesful in their own field, but simply don't possess the necessary skill sets to administrate and effectively promote a National Sport, nor, it would appear to have the acumen to surround themselves with the people needed who can. Which all results in 'cobbled together' Competitions, of very little worth, with very little TV presence, meaning hardly any major sponsorship is forthcoming as the demographic (and total numbers) of the audience doesnt justify the outlay. This then leads to admission costs which inhibit rather than attract followers as they have to be set to try and recover the costs involved from an ever dwindling fanbase.. The most concerning barometer of where the Sport is for me, is the simple fact that at many tracks kids are allowed in for free or just a nominal amount, yet there are hardly any of them there... Even free Speedway isnt deemed to be worth attending seems to be the feedback... It really now has to be time for the Sport to go "all in" and get itself a proper marketing company with a strong track record to promote it.. Redirect some of the millions it currently pays out to riders each season and see if it can be marketed or 'hyped' to get people in through its doors.. It is said that the definition of insanity is "Always doing the same thing over and over again, but each time you do it, you are expecting a different result".. If Speedway doesn't change, (and radically) soon, the men with the straight jackets might not be too far away... And maybe, sadly, followed closely behind by the undertakers..? Brutal, but accurate assessment of where we are. Hardly any new blood coming through the turnstiles, not surprising given a product that hardly anyone recognises. Weekday (school day) meetings not good for B.V. as no kids often means no adults too. The actual racing at B.V. is on the whole really good and our Promotion tries hard, but B.V. had no vote in something that has fundamentally altered its' business model - how can this be right? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, bellevueace said: I think you are spot on with that assessment, if the entertainment served up not just on Monday does not tempt people through the turnstiles speedway has a real problem, having said that ive seen several polish meetings this season and overall the racing has been very processional but look at their crowds, doesn't add up to me. Exactly, which is why I've long said, it's not necessarily the racing. MikeBV sums a lot of it up, it's something I've been saying for 20 years! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 If the Vue can't get the fans in with their massive catchment area of millions what hope is there. Massive crowd at Swindon v Poole, but that was a warm bank holiday. What about a normal cold Monday evening. They made heavy losses last year despite finishing top. And the Abbey doesn't have the best of racing, normally gate and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) MikeBV makes some excellent points in a very good post, but surely when the marketing people have done their thing the actual product has got to match up to the hype? Using the Polish meetings ive seen it certainly does not do that I lose interest in the processional fare served up aqnd im not paying to enter the stadium, so why do so many still attend when the actual product does not produce? In darts the PDC has the top players and produces great matches unlike the BDO. Edited May 9, 2018 by bellevueace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 Just now, bellevueace said: MikeBV makes some excellent points in a very good post, but surely when the marketing people have done their thing the actual product has got to match up to the hype? Using the Polish meetings ive seen it certainly does not do that I lose interest in the processional fare served up aqnd im not paying to enter the stadium, so why do so many still attend when the actual product does not produce? I suspect that a major part of the enjoyment is because of the atmosphere created by the large crowds. That of itself generates excitement and adds significantly to the overall experience. Throw in a few good races and the crowd leave having had a good time and wanting to come back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Aces51 said: I suspect that a major part of the enjoyment is because of the atmosphere created by the large crowds. That of itself generates excitement and adds significantly to the overall experience. Throw in a few good races and the crowd leave having had a good time and wanting to come back. That's a good point mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, bellevueace said: MikeBV makes some excellent points in a very good post, but surely when the marketing people have done their thing the actual product has got to match up to the hype? Using the Polish meetings ive seen it certainly does not do that I lose interest in the processional fare served up aqnd im not paying to enter the stadium, so why do so many still attend when the actual product does not produce? In darts the PDC has the top players and produces great matches unlike the BDO. The PDC and BDO do 'share' competitors for various events through the year, (now where have we seen that before?) with The Grand Slam Of Darts being the most well known... And to be fair, several BDO lads do hold their own in that competition, usually until the later stages when the matches get longer.. Although there is an obvious difference in the overall standard between the two, that difference in the competitors capabilites is no where near as wide as the HUGE gulf in how both sports are promoted, marketed and, at the event, presented to the fans by their respective controlling bodies... Truly is 'chalk and cheese'... One tries to deliver a night of noise, colour, excitement and encourages audience participation, where you come away from it very content that you got value for your money, and (probably more importantly), will attend again.. The other is sat in a time warp that has never even reached the end of the 20th Century, never mind being fit for purpose to be successful well into the 21st.... Spookily similar to Poland and Britain's philosophy on how they run their Speedway I would suggest... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces High Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, auntie doris said: If the Vue can't get the fans in with their massive catchment area of millions what hope is there. I think that kind of works both ways because they compete within an enormous sports and entertainment marketplace. It's not the same as somewhere like Kings Lynn where there is very little else to do. BWitcher has a very valid point though and despite the product being really good, Belle Vue is currently like to trying to sell a really high quality of DVD player to a marketplace who have moved on to streaming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 23 hours ago, Ivanhoe said: The lack of a proper No 1 is going to make for a pretty mediocre season for Wolves. The team that's pretty strong at home and took an away point 2 weeks ago with the number one top scoring you mean? It's most certainly not mediocre so far. As for the KO Cup, mickey mouse competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 I haven't yet had the opportunity to see the Belle Vue mascot 'Chase the Ace' in action but have seen some glowing reports from some members of the forum. If it's increasing crowd participation and helping with the atmosphere, that's a step in the right direction. Wolverhampton used to have Mr Wolf back in the day who was great.. unfortunately any attempts to replace him have fallen very flat indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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