Potters v Colts - 5/5/18

[Halifaxtiger]

29 minutes ago, adonis said:

I can't see how fining an obviously cash strapped club will help anything .  I do get your point that unless they get punished somehow they will likely carry on until their failings hurt somebody or worse , maybe the BSPA could take control of the place and spend whatever money they deem necessary to make it safe ,then hand it back when they have been reimbursed or profit enough to cover the expenditure , 

It'll help because they are far more likely to put their house in order to avoid further financial penalties and because we simply cannot allow such negligence to go unpunished. Perhaps a suspended fine might be a possibility, payable only if matters do not improve.

What must be the case is that our tracks are made as safe as they can be  and that anyone who does not ensure that basic conditions for safety are in place - and there is no doubt that adequate lighting is one of them - is dealt with appropriately. 

 

[fubar]

Here is a scenario for you.

As a result of some kind of defect at a track which the promoter, the referee the clerk of the course and the governing body are fully aware of, a rider suffers severe life-changing injures.

So everybody looks to the event insurance company to sort the situation out and ensure that the injured rider receives the support to which they are surely entitled.

But hey ho, the insurers turn round and say that because the promoters and the governing body were perfectly aware of the defect but chose to do nothing about it then they were surely negligent and the insurers would not be paying out a single penny.

The rider's only chance of securing the funding that they may need for their ongoing care is to bring legal action against the promoter, the clerk of the course, the referee and the governing body and that will take substantial funding and could drag on for years.

So, anybody who is involved with any enterprise whether it be a bouncy castle or a motor sport venue which may be a touch on the iffy side but who thinks that someone else will carry the can if it all goes pear-shaped might be best advised to flag up their concerns before the excrement hits the fan.

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, fubar said:

Here is a scenario for you.

As a result of some kind of defect at a track which the promoter, the referee the clerk of the course and the governing body are fully aware of, a rider suffers severe life-changing injures.

So everybody looks to the event insurance company to sort the situation out and ensure that the injured rider receives the support to which they are surely entitled.

But hey ho, the insurers turn round and say that because the promoters and the governing body were perfectly aware of the defect but chose to do nothing about it then they were surely negligent and the insurers would not be paying out a single penny.

The rider's only chance of securing the funding that they may need for their ongoing care is to bring legal action against the promoter, the clerk of the course, the referee and the governing body and that will take substantial funding and could drag on for years.

So, anybody who is involved with any enterprise whether it be a bouncy castle or a motor sport venue which may be a touch on the iffy side but who thinks that someone else will carry the can if it all goes pear-shaped might be best advised to flag up their concerns before the excrement hits the fan.

 

It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

Edited May 9, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[fubar]

10 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

Well, that is partly true but all suppliers of goods and services including speedway operators should have at the very least 3rd party liability insurance.

The extract from the Speedway Regulations posted below states that promoters must have insurance in place to cover accident and third party liability.

The sensible rider, such as Dean, will put in place their own personal accident insurance but this will be on top of the cover provided by the promotion.

Clearly, some riders who are struggling for funds or perhaps where a promoter has failed to pay them for a period of time may mistakenly regard the additional insurance as a

luxury which they cannot afford.

So, I stick by my original argument that promoters must ensure that there are no grounds for an insurer voiding cover on the grounds of negligence by the policy holder and

failing to rectify a frequent and serious defect that may endanger life or limb may be considered to be negligent.

 

Speedway Regulations

Promotions must have effective Insurance cover for Personal Accident, Employers Liability and

Public and Product liability and be responsible for the timely payment of all premiums.

It is preferred that such Insurance cover is arranged through the approved BSPA Brokers, but

should that not be so then prior approval must be sought from the SCB.

Insurance cover for Referees and Officials officially appointed to the meeting by the SCB and

SCB Members and Officers attending a meeting/training session will be provided by the ACU.

Riders may be required to contribute towards the cost of Personal Accident insurance.

Personal Accident insurance shall cover all riders and all non-SCB appointed Officials (both

licensed and non-licensed) against the risk of Personal Accident.

Insurance to a “Limit of Indemnity” of £10,000,000 for any one claim or series of claims must

be held for Public and Product Liability and Employers Liability.

 

SCB registered riders, declared in a Premiership, Championship or National Development

League team, taking part in a meeting are covered by Personal Accident Insurance.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, fubar said:

Well, that is partly true but all suppliers of goods and services including speedway operators should have at the very least 3rd party liability insurance.

The extract from the Speedway Regulations posted below states that promoters must have insurance in place to cover accident and third party liability.

The sensible rider, such as Dean, will put in place their own personal accident insurance but this will be on top of the cover provided by the promotion.

Clearly, some riders who are struggling for funds or perhaps where a promoter has failed to pay them for a period of time may mistakenly regard the additional insurance as a

luxury which they cannot afford.

So, I stick by my original argument that promoters must ensure that there are no grounds for an insurer voiding cover on the grounds of negligence by the policy holder and

failing to rectify a frequent and serious defect that may endanger life or limb may be considered to be negligent.

 

Speedway Regulations

Promotions must have effective Insurance cover for Personal Accident, Employers Liability and

Public and Product liability and be responsible for the timely payment of all premiums.

It is preferred that such Insurance cover is arranged through the approved BSPA Brokers, but

should that not be so then prior approval must be sought from the SCB.

Insurance cover for Referees and Officials officially appointed to the meeting by the SCB and

SCB Members and Officers attending a meeting/training session will be provided by the ACU.

Riders may be required to contribute towards the cost of Personal Accident insurance.

Personal Accident insurance shall cover all riders and all non-SCB appointed Officials (both

licensed and non-licensed) against the risk of Personal Accident.

Insurance to a “Limit of Indemnity” of £10,000,000 for any one claim or series of claims must

be held for Public and Product Liability and Employers Liability.

 

SCB registered riders, declared in a Premiership, Championship or National Development

League team, taking part in a meeting are covered by Personal Accident Insurance.

The public liability insurance is more for the crowd than the riders, the basic insurance for the riders is poor and always has been but is better than nothing so most get their own personal insurance and the riders benevelent fund also help, I’m not sure they take on new riders anymore but the one to have was the CICA insurance, it was used by pretty much all the riders and sports people in general and it covers you for all sorts of injuries not just racing but they stopped taking new riders a few years ago I believe because some sports competitors were falsely claiming for injuries, not speedway riders other sports but I have always had my suspicions about one rider that was abusing the system 

Edited May 10, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Halifaxtiger]

14 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

have It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

To my knowledge, Chris Johnson did precisely that when he was severely injured at King's Lynn. Also to my knowledge, he won. I believe Jamie Smith did too, again at King's Lynn.

I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that speedway is most dangerous and that riders have to be aware of both that and the fact that they risk their lives every time they take to the track. They should therefore take every precaution possible, including - if necessary - personal insurance.

However, that in no way absolves a promotion of any responsibility should someone get badly hurt because they too have a duty  to make sure that the track is as safe as it can be. Chris Holder and Luke Priest were very seriously injured as a result of an air fence not being properly fastened down, and they would certainly have a case against a promoter - something was certainly mentioned about Holder taking legal action - for failing to take adequate measures to ensure their safety. 

Lights is a very good example. If they blew in the middle of a race and a rider crashed as a result (when he most certainly would not have done otherwise) if it is found that the electrics were faulty the promotion would be culpable and therefore liable. 

Riders do accept just how dangerous speedway is, I am sure.  But if it is shown that the risks have been increased (to whatever degree) by the negligence of a promotion that goes beyond the dangers that they might reasonably have accepted.  

Edited May 10, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

55 minutes ago, adonis said:

if you could get personal injury insurance for speedway these days ,not many Nl riders could afford the premium 

l

l

It costs about the same as having the latest mobile phone with a contract 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

2 hours ago, adonis said:

it used to , but can you still get it ,and especially at that price ?

 

I think i pay about £350 a year for 2 policy’s but they are not the  basic ones with CICA, it’s a small price to pay even though I don’t race anymore, I did have another policy with them for being off work through sickness but being self employed you find you need to be almost dead before you have a day off so I stopped that one, I don’t know who the top riders use but there must be good insurance out there 

Edited May 10, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[happy potter]

I keep posting on here to stay away and the posts i have read goes to show it isn't worth spending your hard earned down there.

Promotion will never change as long as folks keep turning up giving them money.

Save your time coming here, go somewhere else to watch speedway.

 

[bruno]

I shall never enter Stoke speedway again, a shambles of a club. Feel for the fans that track could be a great racetrack . I've been to every track except Redcar which I will get to this year and although some tracks don't give good racing ,rating the overall experience Stoke come bottom by a country mile

 

 

 

[Racin Jason 72]

I actually really want to go to stoke just to see if it really is that bad ! Last time I went was twenty years ago and there was a crater on the first bend then.  

But I remember in the late eighties the track was  famously well prepared and smooth so we know it can be done. I know stock cars share the track but so do many other tracks without the rough track. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I didn’t go on Saturday as I watched the GP but I am reliably informed by certain people that stoke had put new shale on the track and a quote from one rider was “it was mint” his words not mine,however cause some riders couldn’t handle more dirt dave scraped it off after heat 5 , funny enough the same rider loves riding Buxton’s track and often hits big scores there, that rider has the right attitude, it’s a shame others don’t follow, while the generator needs sorting and somebody please sort missery guts out in the bar, the track is not a problem, if it’s rough it’s rough some tracks are, you put inexperianced riders out on bikes they don’t really understand on a rough track then what do you expect ? I watch some national league riders and they are going faster than they can handle and are generally being taken for a ride by the bike,  dave and his team are really trying to get stoke back to where it should be but it’s difficult on a shoe string, 

Edited May 15, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Pinny]

I remember Craig Watson flying under the airfence and smashing his arm to pieces on a fence post. 

The club has been a shambles since their PL days, horrific stadium awful track and a careless promoter. How the club still has a license under Tatum, i do not know

[Sings4Speedway]

Sadly lifting/ poorly fitted air fences are an occurrence at many tracks

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

Whats happened to Rob shuttleworths  form this year at the end of last year i thought he was going to establish himself in the championship but he's national league form has really dropped away to he's form of 2 years ago ... 8,5,2,5,0  is well below he's average maybe there's machinery problems and more to it in the meetings that the bare numbers don't show .. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by ProudtobeaBrummie

[gee jay]

as a newport regular at the time i remember it , it put him out for the rest of the season . i think the next year he did the same to his arm at home to stoke . as s4s says it still happens now although thankfully no where near as much as then , when it was a regular occurrence.  not so sure it can be piled on the problems at stoke atm as it was a speedway problem as a whole back then. 

[Aces51]

On 15/05/2018 at 1:32 PM, adonis said:

Belle Vue greyhound track was always diabolical , and that was for Elite league , some have been blinded to that by the new surrounds of the nss

If you're referring to the standard of track preparation it wasn't always diabolical. It certainly had its moments when it was poorly prepared, which resulted in several changes of track staff but was fine for the first few years, reasonable for most of the time and very good from when Colin Meredith took over as track curator until we moved out in 2015. 

[burton1]

On 16/05/2018 at 4:16 AM, Pinny said:

I remember Craig Watson flying under the airfence and smashing his arm to pieces on a fence post. 

The club has been a shambles since their PL days, horrific stadium awful track and a careless promoter. How the club still has a license under Tatum, i do not know

I remember Craig Watson smashing his ankle to bits ,in a match at Newport ,these incidents can happen anywhere.

[East End Fan]

Macauley Leek went through the fence at full throttle and head on last Monday at Kent. Air bags were smashed to bits but

Macauley, who ended up behind the fence, got up and walked away unharmed.  Why aren't all fences as safe as that ?