Buxton v Brummies Sun 29th Ap NT

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Someone trails all the way from Birmingham to Buxton, for the express purpose of watching a speedway meeting. That meeting is called off in farcical circumstances. Not the slightest demur. Sole reaction: well, I enjoyed the trip and the scenery. Sorry, still baffled.

To Jayne (presumably Moss): how do we go about getting a full refund? Can you give me an address to which we can post our readmission and trackside parking tickets?

Please contact www.buxtonhitmen.co for the details as I cannot provide my address on a public forum and you will receive a refund on your admission costs. 

[cityrebel]

6 hours ago, East End Fan said:

Cityrebel seems to want promoters to refund each paying customer if there is a rain off.  Has he not considered the impossibility of

doing that ?  No fan with a brain ever expects to get a cash refund if a meeting is cancelled.  While the BSPA rule is not perfect, in the

circumstances it's probably the best that can be achieved....Someone told me that cricket fans get no kind of re-fund whatever the circumstances.

Where did I say that. Promoters should use their discretion to refund fans that are not local to their track. When a football club change the date of a match, they offer a full refund. It's not rocket science is It!.

[Dave Jones]

7 hours ago, East End Fan said:

Cityrebel seems to want promoters to refund each paying customer if there is a rain off.  Has he not considered the impossibility of

doing that ?  No fan with a brain ever expects to get a cash refund if a meeting is cancelled.  While the BSPA rule is not perfect, in the

circumstances it's probably the best that can be achieved....Someone told me that cricket fans get no kind of re-fund whatever the circumstances.

I think you will find that if a cricket game is called off without a ball being bowled then a full refund is given..

I can't think of any justifiable reason for keeping a supporters cash if the entertainment fails to go ahead.

[fubar]

Belle Vue have got it right. Either swap your ticket for another meeting or get a full refund.

It is rather hard to see a case where a club could argue that the customer is not entitled to their money back.

I wonder how other clubs deal with this kind of thing?

Belle Vue Speedway 2017 Ltd – National Speedway Stadium
Meeting Abandonment Policy
All meetings abandoned prior to the start will entitle ticket holders to a full refund or exchange for a future
meeting within 12 months from the date of the abandoned meeting at the club (excluding BSPA, ACU
and/or FIM events). In order to obtain a refund, you must visit the ticket office or send your ticket to the
office in order for the refund to be arranged. Ticket exchanges and refunds will only be given on
production of the original ticket from the abandoned race meeting.
Management
Belle Vue Speedway 2017 Limited

[Dave Jones]

33 minutes ago, fubar said:

Belle Vue have got it right. Either swap your ticket for another meeting or get a full refund.

It is rather hard to see a case where a club could argue that the customer is not entitled to their money back.

I wonder how other clubs deal with this kind of thing?

Belle Vue Speedway 2017 Ltd – National Speedway Stadium
Meeting Abandonment Policy
All meetings abandoned prior to the start will entitle ticket holders to a full refund or exchange for a future
meeting within 12 months from the date of the abandoned meeting at the club (excluding BSPA, ACU
and/or FIM events). In order to obtain a refund, you must visit the ticket office or send your ticket to the
office in order for the refund to be arranged. Ticket exchanges and refunds will only be given on
production of the original ticket from the abandoned race meeting.
Management
Belle Vue Speedway 2017 Limited

Shows the credibility of the club. Not common in today's speedway unfortunately.

[Twowheels]

I am sure that Buxton did all they could to get the meeting on.

[the hobbit]

Let’s not knock Jayne so much folks. 

Anyone who reads the Buxton thread regularly will know that she regularly interacts with fans, giving them information and insights into the what, why and wherefore of many situations. She has always come across as someone with the fans best  interests at heart and, I wish more promoters were like her. 

I am a Brummies fan but due to work, wasn’t there on Sunday so I don’t know what really occurred but I’m sure that whatever may have been said by Jayne in the heat of the aftermath of the event, that when things have calmed down, she will do the right thing. I’m sure this will include making sure no fan is left feeling ripped off or, out of pocket 

 

Anybody who puts their heart and soul into an enterprise such as Buxton which let’s face it, is never going to make anyone rich, should be applauded so despite the rights and wrongs of yesterday  the sport needs promotors like Jayne  and, clubs like Buxton, 

 

If the comments attributed to Josh and Jayne on social media and on their official club website, are a little one sided, can any of you really say that your club has never been guilty of this, has never seen things only from their point of view?

 

any real fan who has been around speedway for any length of time, knows how these things work regarding re-admission tickets, and the risks taken when attending meetings where there has been a prolonged period of inclement weather.

yes, that’s probably why so many fans don’t bother taking the risk these days so  ALL PROMOTORS should bear this in mind before they take people’s money and admit fans into the stadium if there is even the slightest chance that the meeting will be called off. The sport  can’t afford to lose any more fans and at this rate, not even the hard core fans will bother attending away matches in anything other than the middle of a heat wave. Away fans are becoming as rare as rocking horse droppings at most meetings these days. 

what really concerns me most about yesterday is that it seams that Jayne was saying that the track would be ok after a few races which implies that it wouldn’t have been ok during those races!!! With there being several very young and very inexperienced riders in both teams, this could have meant one of more getting seriously injured. It only takes half a lap for even an experienced Grand Prix rider to get seriously injured  JUST  ASK MARTIN VASULIK

If there is any risk to these young riders, their safety should always come first and the meeting should ALWAYS be cancelled 

Even if Josh and Jayne got it wrong yesterday, this Brummies fan is prepared to forgive them as I’m sure that when push comes to shove, they will do the right thing by the fans who were left feeling so annoyed and disappointed yesterday

Edited April 30, 2018 by the hobbit

[Twowheels]

Buxton have done a lot for British Speedway, I take my hat of to them.

[Whisperer]

23 hours ago, uk_martin said:

What a cop-out

Ever heard the term "ex-gratia"? Ever heard of treating exceptional circumstances on their individual merits?

Buxton seem to be sour about this afternoon because there was probably a huge financial loss made. No wonder another few quid in the post is such an unpalletable prospect.

The irony of it, when it comes to be sour ......

[Jayne]

As previously stated anyone with an admission ticket from yesterday can either use it at any Buxton meeting this season or apply in writing for a refund. This is standard policy at all tracks that are members of the BSPA. Belle Vue's policy has been quoted in an earlier post and applauded as being correct, this is the same policy that we all have to adhere to - Buxton included. I think I have made it very clear that we didn't agree with how things were handled yesterday and yes I was very unhappy as I still am.  I have not said that I would not issue refunds although I did say that refunds weren't given on the day which again is standard procedure.  

I don't have a problem with a meeting being called off ( I have been to plenty of them myself both as a supporter and an official) providing it is done in the correct manner. I have also been to meetings where there has been a delay either before the start or during it for track work. Unfortunately neither the referee or certain parties within the Birmingham camp were prepared to allow this to happen. 

The saddest thing about the whole affair is that there was little or no interest in this meeting until it was cancelled. 

[fubar]

20 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Someone trails all the way from Birmingham to Buxton, for the express purpose of watching a speedway meeting. That meeting is called off in farcical circumstances. Not the slightest demur. Sole reaction: well, I enjoyed the trip and the scenery. Sorry, still baffled.

To Jayne (presumably Moss): how do we go about getting a full refund? Can you give me an address to which we can post our readmission and trackside parking tickets?

If you look inside the meeting programme you will find the correspondence address to which you can probably send your request for a refund.

[Guest GiveusaB]

6 hours ago, Jayne said:

As previously stated anyone with an admission ticket from yesterday can either use it at any Buxton meeting this season or apply in writing for a refund. This is standard policy at all tracks that are members of the BSPA. Belle Vue's policy has been quoted in an earlier post and applauded as being correct, this is the same policy that we all have to adhere to - Buxton included. I think I have made it very clear that we didn't agree with how things were handled yesterday and yes I was very unhappy as I still am.  I have not said that I would not issue refunds although I did say that refunds weren't given on the day which again is standard procedure.  

I don't have a problem with a meeting being called off ( I have been to plenty of them myself both as a supporter and an official) providing it is done in the correct manner. I have also been to meetings where there has been a delay either before the start or during it for track work. Unfortunately neither the referee or certain parties within the Birmingham camp were prepared to allow this to happen. 

The saddest thing about the whole affair is that there was little or no interest in this meeting until it was cancelled. 

I've always admired the way you've answered fans queries in the past, but to keep implying that Birmingham riders are to blame for the 'call off' is very unprofessional imo....

I would lay blame at your club's lack of track preparation ! 'Nothing that a few heats wouldn't sort out' is what you said in a previous post ( I think?)

Well, what about the safety of the riders in 'those, so called few heats' ?

The track should be stonewall safe from Heat 1.....not after a 'few heats' ?

Total disregard for riders safety.....I find that mentality totally wrong in a sport as dangerous as this ?

I'm glad we're a bit more professional at Perry Barr !

[Guest GiveusaB]

On 29/04/2018 at 5:11 PM, Jayne said:

It was your riders that convinced the referee to change his mind.  Nothing wrong that a few heats wouldn't have fixed. 

 

[Guest GiveusaB]

10 hours ago, adonis said:

Trying to make something out of a comment that is common speedway speak is really childish , I have seen the comment after a few races the track will sort sort itself out a thousand times .on TV at GPs and Elite  league , those of us without an axe to grind knew exactly what Jayne  meant by it . 

 

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me....I'm just giving my opinion

I wasn't being 'childish' ? I know what is meant when tracks get better after a few heats i.e slick/heavy..... but a track with holes/ruts doesn't sort itself out and to blame the opposition for not wanting to ride on it ??? well.......

Full refunds have been offered so I don't have any axe to grind !?

[brianbuck]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:23 AM, fredbogge said:

 Has anyone stated what was wrong with the track  ( details please )

Most of the track seemed to be ok but there was a very soggy patch about 6' square on the exit from the second bend and a similar patch on the exit from the fourth bend. The riders expressed concerns about these after walking the track and the referee asked for some work to be done to try and harden these and agreed to delay the start to give Buxton the chance of doing this. The next 45 minutes or so were spent with a transit van being driven round the track to try to tyre-pack the soggy patches, but this did not seem to have been sufficient time to do this (if this had been an evening meeting, then this could probably have been remedied.)

One of the riders I spoke to, pointed out that a rider starting from grid one would need to veer to the right in order to avoid the soggy patch, and that this would force any rider behind him to either shut off, or risk riding through the suspect part of the track.

It was then suggested that one rider from each team should ride round the track for four laps to test conditions, Tom Woolley being nominated by Buxton and Leon Flint volunteering to represent Birmingham. Tom took the first lap at a fair speed but carefully avoided the two soggy patches. On his second lap, he tried to drive through the second bend patch only to have his bike lurch to the right and almost cause him to lose control. On his third lap, he tried to ride through the fourth bend patch with the same result. He then returned to the pits without taking his fourth lap, shaking his head as he did so. Before Leon Flint was able to go out for his test, the referee ruled that the track was unfit, and called off the meeting.

This decision enraged the Buxton promoter who suggested to the referee that he had only postponed the meeting "because "they" (meaning Birmingham) had kicked-off." The referee replied that he had delayed the start time and felt that he had allowed every opportunity for Buxton to get the match on, but having watched Tom Woolley try out the track, he "did not like what he had seen" and had made his decision on the strength of this.

The above is my take on the situation. The comments I have quoted were made either to me or within my hearing. They are not hearsay. I was aware of numerous other reported comments which I did not hear, so I have not included them. I appreciate that many of these were made in the heat of the moment and are probably now regretted. I think it is unfair to suggest that the problems were cause by poor track preparation by Buxton. The track had suffered from the atrocious weather we have all had to endure, and if the report I heard that a flat track meeting had taken place on the track the previous day, then that obviously wouldn't have helped, but I think Buxton did the best that they could in the time available to them.

I never at any time heard any rider infer that he would refuse to ride, and when it looked for a time as though the meeting would go on, they all changed into their kevlars. I think most of them were relieved when the match was called off, but had the referee decided that the track was fit enough, then they would have accepted it.

As far as the statement from another poster that the track was in better shape that Perry Barr was for our match against Coventry on March 20th, this is debatable, but on that occasion, the riders of both teams and the two team managers all thought that the meeting should have been postponed, but the referee decided otherwise, and all of them accepted this and got on with it.

This is my own view of the situation and the developments of the afternoon. I realise that some may disagree, which of course they are fully entitled to do, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for what happened - the bad weather was the root cause of the problems and I think it needed more than just one fine day to get things shipshape.

[Brummies_Ste]

25 minutes ago, brianbuck said:

Most of the track seemed to be ok but there was a very soggy patch about 6' square on the exit from the second bend and a similar patch on the exit from the fourth bend. The riders expressed concerns about these after walking the track and the referee asked for some work to be done to try and harden these and agreed to delay the start to give Buxton the chance of doing this. The next 45 minutes or so were spent with a transit van being driven round the track to try to tyre-pack the soggy patches, but this did not seem to have been sufficient time to do this (if this had been an evening meeting, then this could probably have been remedied.)

One of the riders I spoke to, pointed out that a rider starting from grid one would need to veer to the right in order to avoid the soggy patch, and that this would force any rider behind him to either shut off, or risk riding through the suspect part of the track.

It was then suggested that one rider from each team should ride round the track for four laps to test conditions, Tom Woolley being nominated by Buxton and Leon Flint volunteering to represent Birmingham. Tom took the first lap at a fair speed but carefully avoided the two soggy patches. On his second lap, he tried to drive through the second bend patch only to have his bike lurch to the right and almost cause him to lose control. On his third lap, he tried to ride through the fourth bend patch with the same result. He then returned to the pits without taking his fourth lap, shaking his head as he did so. Before Leon Flint was able to go out for his test, the referee ruled that the track was unfit, and called off the meeting.

This decision enraged the Buxton promoter who suggested to the referee that he had only postponed the meeting "because "they" (meaning Birmingham) had kicked-off." The referee replied that he had delayed the start time and felt that he had allowed every opportunity for Buxton to get the match on, but having watched Tom Woolley try out the track, he "did not like what he had seen" and had made his decision on the strength of this.

The above is my take on the situation. The comments I have quoted were made either to me or within my hearing. They are not hearsay. I was aware of numerous other reported comments which I did not hear, so I have not included them. I appreciate that many of these were made in the heat of the moment and are probably now regretted. I think it is unfair to suggest that the problems were cause by poor track preparation by Buxton. The track had suffered from the atrocious weather we have all had to endure, and if the report I heard that a flat track meeting had taken place on the track the previous day, then that obviously wouldn't have helped, but I think Buxton did the best that they could in the time available to them.

I never at any time heard any rider infer that he would refuse to ride, and when it looked for a time as though the meeting would go on, they all changed into their kevlars. I think most of them were relieved when the match was called off, but had the referee decided that the track was fit enough, then they would have accepted it.

As far as the statement from another poster that the track was in better shape that Perry Barr was for our match against Coventry on March 20th, this is debatable, but on that occasion, the riders of both teams and the two team managers all thought that the meeting should have been postponed, but the referee decided otherwise, and all of them accepted this and got on with it.

This is my own view of the situation and the developments of the afternoon. I realise that some may disagree, which of course they are fully entitled to do, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for what happened - the bad weather was the root cause of the problems and I think it needed more than just one fine day to get things shipshape.

Brian " The Voice Of Reason " Buck

Well said

[gazzac]

Agree with B.Bucks post, although I wasn't there seems a good sensible evaluation. Be nice to move on now and stop the blame game.

Edited May 2, 2018 by gazzac

[phillipsr]

Depends if you believe that explanation or Jaynes really... 

[Brummies_Ste]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:50 AM, Jayne said:

As previously stated anyone with an admission ticket from yesterday can either use it at any Buxton meeting this season or apply in writing for a refund. This is standard policy at all tracks that are members of the BSPA. Belle Vue's policy has been quoted in an earlier post and applauded as being correct, this is the same policy that we all have to adhere to - Buxton included. I think I have made it very clear that we didn't agree with how things were handled yesterday and yes I was very unhappy as I still am.  I have not said that I would not issue refunds although I did say that refunds weren't given on the day which again is standard procedure.  

I don't have a problem with a meeting being called off ( I have been to plenty of them myself both as a supporter and an official) providing it is done in the correct manner. I have also been to meetings where there has been a delay either before the start or during it for track work. Unfortunately neither the referee or certain parties within the Birmingham camp were prepared to allow this to happen. 

The saddest thing about the whole affair is that there was little or no interest in this meeting until it was cancelled. 

Well Mrs Moss it is now 3 weeks since I posted my admission ticket back to the address on your site requesting a refund.

Are you going to honour your statement in your post above ?

 

[Jayne]

5 hours ago, Brummies_Ste said:

Well Mrs Moss it is now 3 weeks since I posted my admission ticket back to the address on your site requesting a refund.

Are you going to honour your statement in your post above ?

 

I have only received two requests for refunds both of which were sent last week, one was from Brian Buck and the other from a lady in Coventry.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Jayne