Rye House v Wolves 25.04.18

[Gavan]

1 hour ago, colin wood said:

I think the point Mark was making was that he'd rather see the rider who breaks the tapes go off 15m and not be replaced by a reserve.Not the reserve go off 15m lol!

But what if the rider who breaks the tapes is a reserve?

Heat 9 is the home team 3 & 4 and the away team 5 & 6.

If the away number 6 breaks the tapes then what do you do.? Mark says put them off 15 metres but that wouldnt be fair as chances are the reserve would never catch up. There would be exceptions , Bewley being one of those. Yet in the same heat if the home number 3 breaks the tapes he could in all theory catch the number 6 of the away side off of 15 metres.

Cant see how you can just have the rule that all riders go off of 15 metres.

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

I can't be bothered , it's simple as that.    Nothing to do with strife. 

Correct.  Thank you.    Unfortunately Bwitcher didn't understand my point.    No point me continuing the discussion.

You haven't had a point from the beginning.

You've decided after 70 odd years of league speedway that suddenly the team with the best reserve will win the league. It's garbage.

[Mark]

6 minutes ago, Gavan said:

But what if the rider who breaks the tapes is a reserve?

Heat 9 is the home team 3 & 4 and the away team 5 & 6.

If the away number 6 breaks the tapes then what do you do.? Mark says put them off 15 metres but that wouldnt be fair as chances are the reserve would never catch up. There would be exceptions , Bewley being one of those. Yet in the same heat if the home number 3 breaks the tapes he could in all theory catch the number 6 of the away side off of 15 metres.

Cant see how you can just have the rule that all riders go off of 15 metres.

My point is a simple one.     If a rider breaks the tapes why should the team manager have an easy option of putting another (reserve) rider in his place.    This reserve, and he has the choice of two in most races, could be a better option for a rider who is out of form.     It's open to abuse by deliberately breaking the tapes too.

If a rider brakes the tapes he is trying to gain an advantage over the three other riders in his heat.   Penalise him by putting him off 15 metres.  No reserve replacement allowed.

 

[Mark]

3 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

You haven't had a point from the beginning.

You've decided after 70 odd years of league speedway that suddenly the team with the best reserve will win the league. It's garbage.

There is a point but you fail to grasp it.    

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mark

[BWitcher]

3 minutes ago, Mark said:

My point is a simple one.     If a rider breaks the tapes why should the team manager have an easy option of putting another (reserve) rider in his place.    This reserve, and he has the choice of two in most races, could be a better option for a rider who is out of form.     It's open to abuse by deliberately breaking the tapes too.

If a rider brakes the tapes he is trying to gain an advantage over the three other riders in his heat.   Penalise him by putting him off 15 metres.  No reserve replacement allowed.

 

I'm afraid the part in bold shows you really don't understand. There is nothing 'open to abuse' as the rider could have just been replaced anyway.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by BWitcher

[Mark]

1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

I'm afraid the part in bold shows you really don't understand. There is nothing 'open to abuse' as the rider could have just been replaced anyway.

 

If you say so.  Bye.

[BWitcher]

1 minute ago, Mark said:

If you say so.  Bye.

Yes I do say so. 

Now an adult answer would have been, "I didn't realise that, thanks for pointing it out."

The child storms off in a huff.

Edited to add: Actually that's unfair on kids....

Edited April 26, 2018 by BWitcher

[Grachan]

1 minute ago, Mark said:

If you say so.  Bye.

He is correct though. You could have replaced the rider anyway, regardless of whether or not he broke the tapes.

[Gavan]

6 minutes ago, Mark said:

My point is a simple one.     If a rider breaks the tapes why should the team manager have an easy option of putting another (reserve) rider in his place.    This reserve, and he has the choice of two in most races, could be a better option for a rider who is out of form.     It's open to abuse by deliberately breaking the tapes too.

If a rider brakes the tapes he is trying to gain an advantage over the three other riders in his heat.   Penalise him by putting him off 15 metres.  No reserve replacement allowed.

 

So why get a rider to break the tapes? Just replace the rider with the reserve in the first place. 

And again what would you do in the scenario i mentioned?

[BWitcher]

The crux of his point is, he doesn't think reserve changes should be allowed under any circumstance.

I fail to see any benefit whatsoever to this idea, it hasn't been an issue in the past 60+ years of the sport and it isn't one now. 

[Call me wolfie]

Is breaking the tapes classed as a ride. If so in certain circumstances a rider off form may be told to do it in order to fulfil his quota as the the reserve couldn't automatically replace him

[Mark]

18 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Yes I do say so. 

Now an adult answer would have been, "I didn't realise that, thanks for pointing it out."

The child storms off in a huff.

Edited to add: Actually that's unfair on kids....

I couldn't care less if your right of wrong.    I'm not a kid who goes off in a huff, just bored, got some paint I need to watch dry.     I know you'll reply to this as your desperate to have the last word.     Try not to reply, see if you can resist, self discipline is good..

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mark

[BWitcher]

6 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

Is breaking the tapes classed as a ride. If so in certain circumstances a rider off form may be told to do it in order to fulfil his quota as the the reserve couldn't automatically replace him

No it isn't, otherwise some No 7's would be breaking tapes in all their heats.

[Call me wolfie]

2 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

No it isn't, otherwise some No 7's would be breaking tapes in all their heats.

True

[Najjer]

41 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

Is breaking the tapes classed as a ride. If so in certain circumstances a rider off form may be told to do it in order to fulfil his quota as the the reserve couldn't automatically replace him

It only counts as a ride if he either goes off 15metres or isn't replaced and doesn't take part in the heat and is therefore declared as a 'non starter' which counts as a ride.

[Grachan]

It does, however, count as a ride in the averages.

[Najjer]

44 minutes ago, Grachan said:

It does, however, count as a ride in the averages.

If they are replaced, it doesn't count towards averages.

[Gemini]

14 hours ago, westhamboy66 said:

You may well be right but the season starts in March and by June or July when his is up to standard he may well have been one of the big reasons why Rye House will be out of the playoffs and a season ending again in early September. 

Which begs the question why does he do it?  Seen him enough seasons at Coventry to know he usually struggles early season getting the right set up for his bike/s and then gradually gets them sorted out, only to get rid of them at the end of the year.  You'd think riders would want to save the expense of new equipment but it doesn't seem to work like that.

[Grachan]

3 hours ago, Najjer said:

If they are replaced, it doesn't count towards averages.

It does. Unless there has been a recent rule change, a tape exclusion counts as a ride in the averages.

If they are replaced, it doesn't count as one of the rides for the meeting, but still does in regards of the rider's average.

A two-minute exclusion does not count towards the averages.

The only doubt I have is that this is a fact from about 20 years ago, so may have changed. But it was certainly the case in the past and I'm 99.9% certain it still is.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Grachan

[Najjer]

6 hours ago, Grachan said:

It does. Unless there has been a recent rule change, a tape exclusion counts as a ride in the averages.

If they are replaced, it doesn't count as one of the rides for the meeting, but still does in regards of the rider's average.

A two-minute exclusion does not count towards the averages.

The only doubt I have is that this is a fact from about 20 years ago, so may have changed. But it was certainly the case in the past and I'm 99.9% certain it still is.

I've always been led to believe that neither a two minute exclusion or tape offence count assuming they are replaced, as they are both treated the same.

They only count if they are not replaced and therefore are a non starter if they don't take part in the race.

Maybe somebody else could clarify that. Where's SCB when you need him?!