Najjer Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Pinny said: And also a number one whos not even top of his sides averages in the second division. however, I do agree the top flight is stronger but the gap seems to be getting narrower all the time. Can you imagine Loram and Louis riding in the PL when riding as EL number ones?! the EL has gone on the decline for a while, the promoters are pathetic and have to be blamed. They bring in set race nights to entice the big stars back yet saddle them all with pathetic averages and bring in a one over 8 rule. Jokers The fixed race nights wasn't brought in to entice the top riders back. It was brought in to reduce fixture clashes and riders missing between the Premiership and Championship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Najjer said: The fixed race nights wasn't brought in to entice the top riders back. It was brought in to reduce fixture clashes and riders missing between the Premiership and Championship. Probably a bit of both to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Najjer said: The fixed race nights wasn't brought in to entice the top riders back. It was brought in to reduce fixture clashes and riders missing between the Premiership and Championship. Probably a bit of both to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 11 hours ago, BWitcher said: Of course it won't, nor anything remotely close to it because such strong teams aren't allowed in the Championship.... there's a clue for you there. These kind of sweeping statements are often made, but in reality it's nonsense. Think of the strongest Championship team, then compare the two rider for rider. Rye have a Championship 2nd heat leader at reserve. A Championship No 1 at 2nd string. Tell me, does making patronising comments on the internet make you feel like a big man? If so I'll have to try it some time. Comparing now, on start of season averages it is easy to say that compared rider for rider the Rye team is a lot stronger. Compare this Rye seven with the side that finishes top of the Championship at the end of the season and the gap will be closer than it appears now. Robson is a second heatleader in a weak Championship side, Summers would be a number one at only two other clubs in that tier. You can dress stats up to suit your argument all you like, as can I. But then that was your point wasn't it, that there's no argument... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Pinny said: Probably a bit of both to be honest. As Naijer says, it was to be reduce the clashes with the Championship. They can't afford the top stars, as Wolves picking Thorssell over Lindgren shows. However, I do agree with you regarding the complete mess that they have got themselves into with the constant weakening of the league. The gap is still big though. They have effectively six Championship level heat leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, BWitcher said: As Naijer says, it was to be reduce the clashes with the Championship. They can't afford the top stars, as Wolves picking Thorssell over Lindgren shows. However, I do agree with you regarding the complete mess that they have got themselves into with the constant weakening of the league. The gap is still big though. They have effectively six Championship level heat leaders. I would say it was done for both, or did Iversen, Vaculik, Sundstrom etc come back because of the lack of fixture clashes with the Championship? If Lynn can afford Iversen, Somerset affoed Doyle... I see no reason why Wolves couldnt afford Lindgren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Just now, Ben91 said: Tell me, does making patronising comments on the internet make you feel like a big man? If so I'll have to try it some time. Comparing now, on start of season averages it is easy to say that compared rider for rider the Rye team is a lot stronger. Compare this Rye seven with the side that finishes top of the Championship at the end of the season and the gap will be closer than it appears now. Robson is a second heatleader in a weak Championship side, Summers would be a number one at only two other clubs in that tier. You can dress stats up to suit your argument all you like, as can I. But then that was your point wasn't it, that there's no argument... I don't need to dress up any stats. For the past five or six years people have been making these ridiculous claims that weaker EL (as was) would struggle in the PL (as was). They've always been ridiculous and still are now. When you choose to argue the point, provide ZERO to back it up you set yourself up for patronising comments. Last year the leagues were as 'close' as they have ever been in terms of strength, yet in the play off the higher division absolutely destroyed the lower division. It wasn't even a half competitive match. If Rye were in the Championship their team average adds up to over 50pts and I've not even converted KK's or Kennett's averages... so more likely near 54pts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 58 minutes ago, BWitcher said: I don't need to dress up any stats. For the past five or six years people have been making these ridiculous claims that weaker EL (as was) would struggle in the PL (as was). They've always been ridiculous and still are now. When you choose to argue the point, provide ZERO to back it up you set yourself up for patronising comments. Last year the leagues were as 'close' as they have ever been in terms of strength, yet in the play off the higher division absolutely destroyed the lower division. It wasn't even a half competitive match. If Rye were in the Championship their team average adds up to over 50pts and I've not even converted KK's or Kennett's averages... so more likely near 54pts. I agree with that - nobody is daft enough to think that the gap hasn't got closer between the two leagues than say 15 years ago where there was a massive gulf in class. However, any Premiership team would absolutely blitz the Championship with considerable ease still. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pinny said: I would say it was done for both, or did Iversen, Vaculik, Sundstrom etc come back because of the lack of fixture clashes with the Championship? If Lynn can afford Iversen, Somerset affoed Doyle... I see no reason why Wolves couldnt afford Lindgren? It wasn't done for that purpose - that is just an added benefit for clubs that can afford some of those riders you've mentioned. Most clubs have been running at a loss or breaking even at best, so splashing out on GP riders or highly paid foreigners wasn't top of the agenda at the AGM. Its been well rumoured that Wolves chose Thorsell for financial reasons over Lindgren. Edited April 18, 2018 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Najjer said: It wasn't done for that purpose - that is just an added benefit for clubs that can afford some of those riders you've mentioned. Most clubs have been running at a loss or breaking even at best, so splashing out on GP riders or highly paid foreigners wasn't top of the agenda at the AGM. Its been well rumoured that Wolves chose Thorsell for financial reasons over Lindgren. Course it was done for that purpose as wel as fixture clashs. Riders for years have said they will come back if theres fixed race nights... and now there are fixed race nights, riders you would not of seen ride in the Premiership otherwise have came back. They more than likely set the fixed race nights for numerous reasons, and these are just two of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Pinny said: Course it was done for that purpose as wel as fixture clashs. Riders for years have said they will come back if theres fixed race nights... and now there are fixed race nights, riders you would not of seen ride in the Premiership otherwise have came back. They more than likely set the fixed race nights for numerous reasons, and these are just two of them Fixed race nights was not done to bring all of the GP riders and other foreign riders back, which is why the one rider over 8 rule was brought in. It's the promotors who bought in fixed race nights and not riders. The sole purpose of fixed race nights was to reduce riders missing. Somerset, Rye House and Leicester didn't change their race nights to accommodate Martin Vaculik after all. Edited April 18, 2018 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Najjer said: Fixed race nights was not done to bring all of the GP riders and other foreign riders back, which is why the one rider over 8 rule was brought in. It's the promotors who bought in fixed race nights and not riders. The sole purpose of fixed race nights was to reduce riders missing. Somerset, Rye House and Leicester didn't change their race nights to accommodate Martin Vaculik after all. So its just a coincidence that Vaculik et all decided to come this season is it? Topics would of been raised at the AGM and there would of been numerous suggestions put forward for fixed race nights... yes no fixture clashes would of been one and big names coming backs another. Lynn would of known NKIs only chance of coming back would be for fixed race nights as he said last season so would of voted it for that reason, Leicester were probably in talks with Vaculik before the rule was confirmed and would of wanted the fixed nights brought in to sign him etc... and there are probably more reasons. do you really think that Chapman and Bates walked away from the agm and thought “oh well thats good maybe Vaculik and Iversen will come back now we have fixed nights”. no. They would of had their number ones already planned in their heads and would of gone to the agm to vote for fixed race nights to accomodate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Pinny said: I would say it was done for both, or did Iversen, Vaculik, Sundstrom etc come back because of the lack of fixture clashes with the Championship? If Lynn can afford Iversen, Somerset affoed Doyle... I see no reason why Wolves couldnt afford Lindgren? who says they can actually afford them ? wouldn't be the first time a club can't actually afford the team it puts out. like Birmingham a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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