Starman2006 Posted March 20, 2018 Report Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, WalterPlinge said: You do realise there are lots of rules in the rulebook, not just one don't you? Yes, the rule about gardening has changed. The rule about eligibility for heat 15 has also changed...and many others. We were talking about one rule, not umpteen.. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterPlinge Posted March 20, 2018 Report Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Starman2006 said: We were talking about one rule, not umpteen.. I rest my case. Yes. So instead of just talking about the one rule, why did you start wittering on about the gardening rule as well then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 10 hours ago, crescent girl said: This rule does actually disadvantage very short riders. Lasse Bjerre is one, plus MPT, Rohan Tungate. These guys simply don't have long enough legs to dig up, or pack down dirt without dismounting! I have wondered about this. If they are too short to prepare their gate, how do they prepare for the start when all riders have both feet flat on the track? If their feet can reach ground then, why can’t they before the race starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 11 hours ago, WalterPlinge said: Apart from now being excluded if any part of the rider, bike, or equipment touches the tapes, the rule hasn't changed at all this year, and of course we can still have unsatisfactory starts. They're just tightening up on the existing starting rule. i.e. The Start Marshal must make sure the riders are correctly positioned at the tapes, (not back from the tapes with rolling room). The referee must not release the tapes unless all 4 riders are stationary. And if anything touches the tapes, the rider is excluded. (In the past the referees would sometimes release the tapes with a rider moving, and then call them back. Now they won't release the tape until all are stationary). The thinking is, that if the riders are correctly positioned, stationary when the tapes are released, and don't touch the tapes, then it is a fair start, even if someone anticipates and gets a flyer). There may still be cases where someone IS moving before the tapes go up, (referees are human without perfect reflexes) but these cases should now be few and far between. Which makes the decision to get rid of the 2nd line more stupid. The riders were supposed to have their front wheel spindle over line 2 so they were all in the same place and not pulled back, now its gone so rolling room is created again. Shorter riders are disadvantaged from rut preparation but less likely to get their helmets peaks caught on the tapes so the ideal speedway rider of the future will have long legs and a short body Ultimately every rider is out to get the best advantage they can get and starts of this nature will never be perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 7:44 AM, Star Lady said: I really cannot understand why anyone can not blame the riders for not knowing the rules. Imagine the uproar if a footballer didn't know the offside rule or a rugby player was ignorant of the high tackle rule. They are supposedly professionals. People in any walk of life should know the rules of their employment. Yes the team manager should make sure the riders know the rules. From tweets last night, the riders were told by their respective managers, which proved exactly how much notice they take of them As for the need for such a rule, that's beside the point. I assume they thought it would speed up meetings, which it won't. Anyway if we have to blame someone for the rule the blame lies purely at the feet (or should that be the shovel) of one Tai Woffinden An awful lot of footballers & managers do not know the rules. It has been the same for speedway also in many cases & even referees on some occasions, meetings where riders were not eligible to ride as guests & the BSPA have later altered the score to reflect the ineligibility. Mind you, it takes enormous concentration to read all the way through them. They seem to go on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 14 hours ago, Phil The Ace said: I Said on Twitter straight after heat 15 how can we have an unsatisfactory start when I'm.sureni read that you can only stop a race for a tape Infringment out the start. It may be that they can stop it under this rule. 15.5 The Referee, alone, may stop a heat, following an incident or accident, by showing the "stop" Signal if in his/her opinion it would be dangerous to allow the heat to continue. They could consider "bunching" an incident that would be dangerous to continue the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, DunRobin said: An awful lot of footballers & managers do not know the rules. It has been the same for speedway also in many cases....... It's a shame that the managers on Monday didn't remind their riders of the gardening rule in their premeeting briefing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, False dawn said: It's a shame that the managers on Monday didn't remind their riders of the gardening rule in their premeeting briefing. They did but it was forgotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Looking at the Prem greensheets it seems the multiplyer between championship and premiership has changed. It’s a bit more fluid now rather that having one fixed figure. Mitchell 3.00 2.31 (1.3) Jye 5.06 4.00 (1.27) James 3.33 3.00 (1.11) Max 4.15 2.00 (2.08) Richie 9.13 6.55 (1.39) Edited March 22, 2018 by ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 The incompetence of the BSPA / SCB is evident, already 4 amendments to the 2018 rulebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 On 20/03/2018 at 10:18 PM, crescent girl said: This rule does actually disadvantage very short riders. Lasse Bjerre is one, plus MPT, Rohan Tungate. These guys simply don't have long enough legs to dig up, or pack down dirt without dismounting! There was a case in point at Swindon last night. The only rider to transgress was Dan Bewley in his first ride. After that he ran four dismal lasts except for one race when he made the gate and at Blunsdon last night that was good enough for a win. It does look like yet another well-intentioned but ill thought through rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: The incompetence of the BSPA / SCB is evident, already 4 amendments to the 2018 rulebook ...and it was the proof reader's day of again. What is calcification of a rule? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, RobMcCaffery said: There was a case in point at Swindon last night. The only rider to transgress was Dan Bewley in his first ride. After that he ran four dismal lasts except for one race when he made the gate and at Blunsdon last night that was good enough for a win. It does look like yet another well-intentioned but ill thought through rule. Like many of them, they do not seem to think the rules through and there are as many bad as there are reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icicle Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Alan_Jones said: ...and it was the proof reader's day of again. What is calcification of a rule? Making the rule a "Bone of contention"? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: Like many of them, they do not seem to think the rules through and there are as many bad as there are reasonable. And conflicting. One of the best decisions I ever made was to let others worry about the rules, especially those regarding averages and team building, just know what to look for and try to just enjoy the matches. There was a time when I pored over every rule. One day I sat there trying to see how two rules, either side of a page could possibly co-exist. Any fool could see that they were in direct conflict. I realised it was pointless to try to understand something that was literally 'designed by committee' and was just a series of hole-plugging, knee-jerk reactions. It's a good job team managers have so little to do tactically when just understanding the rule book is more than enough to occupy them. Rather than give the job to ex-riders I'd be hiring a lawyer.... Giving up really helped me enjoy the sport so much more, and there's a few in here who could with learning the same lesson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytsejam Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: The incompetence of the BSPA / SCB is evident, already 4 amendments to the 2018 rulebook Spot on. They are a complete and utter joke. Even the rules that dont get amended to, won't be adhered to more often than not anyway!!...e.g. 4 mins between races!!...yeah, RIGHT! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobee Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 So can't see it anywhere on this theme - but can someone in the know please explain exactly how the Green Sheet Averages ( MA ) are calculated each month as we go through the season? I read from the rules that MAs will be calculated on a rolling basis - ( encompassing which rides - do I assume it is the last 12 months stats including the current month in the 'rolling period' ? Confused is what I am .... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, Robbobee said: So can't see it anywhere on this theme - but can someone in the know please explain exactly how the Green Sheet Averages ( MA ) are calculated each month as we go through the season? I read from the rules that MAs will be calculated on a rolling basis - ( encompassing which rides - do I assume it is the last 12 months stats including the current month in the 'rolling period' ? Confused is what I am .... Cheers A bit of a contradiction in the Averages rule, in that although they will be Rolling Averages (eventually), 2017 stats are not included. Updated averages will be achieved once a rider has completed 4H & 4A. I have no idea of the reasoning behind not using 2017 stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 19/03/2018 at 9:02 PM, Star Lady said: We moan at the BSPA for not being professional but the riders really should read the rule book. The fans know the new rules why dont the riders. Almost as if they don't care. Was mentioned by one of our team yesterday that riders forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 21 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: The incompetence of the BSPA / SCB is evident, already 4 amendments to the 2018 rulebook 15.14 TOP SCORER’S HEAT (Heat 15 in all SGB League Competitions) incl NDL 15.14.1 Gate Positions are determined by the outcome of the Coin Toss at the start of the Meeting. 15.14.2 The Home Team Manager nominates first, but once nominated these cannot be amended, except by the Referee should the nomination not conform to the Regulations. 15.14.3 Nominations must be a ‘qualified’ Rider, determined as either: a) A Rider in the top 3 of that Meeting’s Team by current MA (NB. A Team missing one of the top 3 and using the RR facility) may use the 4th highest Rider by MA. or A Top 5 points scorer (counting the 4 x programmed rides only, including bonus points). Excluding any rider who has already taken 7 rides or if one of those top 5 point scorers has already taken 7 rides then the 6th highest points scorer becomes a ‘qualified’ rider. (NB: No facility is available allowing another rider to be elevated to the qualified list if any of those top 5 points scorers are unavailable due to be withdrawn or has no equipment). If a rider is disqualified for an offence under Art 15.3 the Team Manager may choose either of the following options: - i) The disqualified rider can start on a 15 metre handicap in c or d (The opposing team does not change gate positions). or ii) Is replaced by a reserve who will start from the same gate position at the tapes. In a re-run of heat 15 a non-disqualified rider who is unable to take part may be replaced by a reserve or another ‘qualified’ rider. Can I suggest an easier amendment 1. Riders are selected by the team manager who can choose any rider from his teams 1-7 less any that have already completed 7 rides. 2. Any offences at the start or during the race incur the usual penalties as per heats 1-14. Is it really that difficult. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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