moxey63 Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Spot on... What so many promoters over the past twenty years or so have failed to grasp is how important that 'emotional attachment' to your team actually is... The riders mentioned (and many more) helped engender that loyalty bond between fan and 'their' team.. Nowadays two random, cobbled together septets riding under a couple of 'flags of convenience' masquerading as body colours, simply can never engender that loyalty... Running a team sport with such a concept and expecting enough of a fan base to buy into it to make it successful is frankly ludicrous in the extreme... Oh for Wilkie and others of his like today... So right. Promoters ditched staging individual meetings because of poor support, but have turned team speedway into a form of individual racing. And they wonder why crowds have dispersed. There isn't that bond anymore for the average fan to want to travel even a few miles to watch their local team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 Hopefully, the fixed nights this year will greatly reduce the numbers of missing riders. Belle Vue in recent seasons have retained a lot of the same riders from year to year and so have some other teams so, if fixed nights do work, it should be possible to build up that missing relationship with the fans. We shall still have doubling up and riders racing for teams abroad but I think that matters less if they are present for their meetings here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 FOR those who haven't bought a copy or read Wilkie's book, there are copies still available. And, of course, it is helping Alan and his long-suffering wife Jean. Available by sending a cheque or p.o. for £15 plus £3 p and p made out to JA and JA Wilkinson to 7 Cavendish Road, Worsley, Manchester M28 2TQ. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 10 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: FOR those who haven't bought a copy or read Wilkie's book, there are copies still available. And, of course, it is helping Alan and his long-suffering wife Jean. Available by sending a cheque or p.o. for £15 plus £3 p and p made out to JA and JA Wilkinson to 7 Cavendish Road, Worsley, Manchester M28 2TQ. That is most helpful, Philip. I shall send for a copy without delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, bellevueace said: .. and it wasn't the Belle Vue Dinner Dance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Wow! Look at the expression on Wilkie's face. You can see why it's taking 3 blokes to hold him back. Great days when people had a bit of passion for what they did rather than constantly thinking how much money they can screw out of it. Anybody who can identify all the riders gets a bonus point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, fubar said: Wow! Look at the expression on Wilkie's face. You can see why it's taking 3 blokes to hold him back. Great days when people had a bit of passion for what they did rather than constantly thinking how much money they can screw out of it. Anybody who can identify all the riders gets a bonus point. ...If I recall Alan Cowland was the one involved after an on track incident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 No.4 is Alan Ciowland, the rider Wilkie originally had the on-track (racing) difference of opinion with, No.1 is probably Ray Wilson, I believe one of the guys (rider) holding Wilkie back is Malcolm Mackay, John Boulger can be seen in the background looking amazed at the unexpected action and I think the rider dealing out a left hook in the style of a gentleman is either Graham Plant or probably Tom Leadbitter. The Belle Vue no.1 on the night in question still in the pits, and therefore missing out on the fun, was Ronnie Moore guesting for Ivan Mauger. I read about the episode in an old 'Star and if my information wrong, happy to be proved so if the case.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, martinmauger said: No.4 is Alan Ciowland, the rider Wilkie originally had the on-track (racing) difference of opinion with, No.1 is probably Ray Wilson, I believe one of the guys (rider) holding Wilkie back is Malcolm Mackay, John Boulger can be seen in the background looking amazed at the unexpected action and I think the rider dealing out a left hook in the style of a gentleman is either Graham Plant or probably Tom Leadbitter. The Belle Vue no.1 on the night in question still in the pits, and therefore missing out on the fun, was Ronnie Moore guesting for Ivan Mauger. I read about the episode in an old 'Star and if my information wrong, happy to be proved so if the case.... Malcolm Brown??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) A really iconic picture that , i do remember the Cowland/Wilkie incident the picture shows everything how Wilkie was so angry ready to do damage.Speeedway in those days was so intense GENIUNE riders who rode there hearts out for there clubs riders do it now of course but it ent the same.Funny thing was i was thinking in that match the visitors had Ray Wilson and Johnny Boulger on there side who were hardy shrinkling violets two real tough riders. Edited March 9, 2018 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: A really iconic picture that , i do remember the Cowland/Wilkie incident the picture shows everything how Wilkie was so angry ready to do damage.Speeedway in those days was so intense GENIUNE riders who rode there hearts out for there clubs riders do it now of course but it ent the same.Funny thing was i was thinking in that match the visitors had Ray Wilson and Johnny Boulger on there side who were hardy shrinkling violets two real tough riders. I think Ivan Maugers passion for his club was always secondary to passion for his wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Ivan insisted on having a say in the riders that were signed and the running of the teams he was involved with. It is no coincidence that Belle Vue, Hull and Exeter were all successful during his time with them. I'm sure he negotiated good deals for himself but his commitment to his teams was beyond doubt. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 6 hours ago, iris123 said: Malcolm Brown??? Indeed it is, happy to stand corrected.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aces51 said: Ivan insisted on having a say in the riders that were signed and the running of the teams he was involved with. It is no coincidence that Belle Vue, Hull and Exeter were all successful during his time with them. I'm sure he negotiated good deals for himself but his commitment to his teams was beyond doubt. Undoubtedly. But commitment and passion are not the same thing. Plenty of riders these days negotiate good deals for themselves, and show good commitment, but as soon as the season ends they are up for the highest bidder. That’s the difference. I would say Olsen was a great example of someone who showed a lot of commitment to his clubs but rather less passion. Edited March 9, 2018 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Aces51 said: Ivan insisted on having a say in the riders that were signed and the running of the teams he was involved with. It is no coincidence that Belle Vue, Hull and Exeter were all successful during his time with them. I'm sure he negotiated good deals for himself but his commitment to his teams was beyond doubt. You can add Newcastle to that list as well. He helped others like local lad Mike Watkin, and a lot of the riders we signed had the same nationality or were friends of Ivan. Still very fond of Newcastle and every time he came into the country he made a beeline to visit our track, and just used to appear without being announced, have a chat with the Kiwis and disappear before the end of the meeting, and go and see a local family that he was associated with from his time with us. Having a Geordie mechanic, Gordon Stobbs, I asked him if he could get Ivan to come along to my training school on the Sunday afternoon. He had about 4 other events to go to, but sure enough halfway through our session in walked Ivan, and he proceeded to give a lesson in riding and how to train a rider. Never forgot his roots and the young riders, including Liam Carr, will always remember being tutored by Ivan. Pictures of Ivan and the young riders are on the Newcastle Training group Facebook account. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, E I Addio said: Undoubtedly. But commitment and passion are not the same thing. Plenty of riders these days negotiate good deals for themselves, and show good commitment, but as soon as the season ends they are up for the highest bidder. That’s the difference. I would say Olsen was a great example of someone who showed a lot of commitment to his clubs but rather less passion. Ivan didn't want to leave Belle Vue having spent 4 seasons there. It was Belle Vue that let him go, albeit allowing it to be believed it was the rider control committee that were responsible so as not to alienate any fans. They did it because they correctly believed that they could build home grown and less expensive league winning teams without him. Ivan also spent 4 seasons at Hull and 6 at Exeter, so certainly cannot be accused of being a rider who regularly moved from one team to another after relatively short stays. I've no doubt that he would have had very attractive offers if he had let it be known at the end of a season that he was available. I think the evidence points to the fact that he was committed and passionate about his clubs by doing whatever he could to make them successful. He didn't have to do that. He could have done what the majority of top riders do and just ensured that he gave 100% to his riding and that would have been perfectly acceptable. However, he went way beyond that and so far as I know, for no additional financial benefit to himself. Tsunami's post gives further examples of his going above and beyond what he needed to do to help Newcastle and other riders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerblade Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I began going regularly to speedway with 6 meetings left of the 1977 season. Alan Wilkinson featured in 4 of these, rather a sobering thought now, after what was to happen to him the following season. I daresay I'm not the only contributor to this topic who was at his benefit meeting in April 1979. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tigerblade said: I began going regularly to speedway with 6 meetings left of the 1977 season. Alan Wilkinson featured in 4 of these, rather a sobering thought now, after what was to happen to him the following season. I daresay I'm not the only contributor to this topic who was at his benefit meeting in April 1979. 'I was also there' for The Wilkie 4's, big turn out of fans on a freezing cold & wet day with many top riders riding for the 4 teams: Ivan Mauger, Bruce Penhall, PC, etc, etc which showed the high esteem people had, and still have, for Alan. Ivan won the World Individual Championship & tunned around the fortunes of, and won the league with, every team he rode for. Except Hull. The 3-no shows at Wimbledon + 1 non-arrival at Swindon in 1979 which did for Hull's title challenge were entered into the annulls of speedway history. Though Ivan did win the then World Team Cup with New Zealand in that year. Think the only 'major' (no pun intended) national trophy Hull won during Ivan's time (1978-81) was the Interleague 4TT - and ironcially Ivan didn't ride in the IL 4TT Final at Sheffeild. Many riders, didn't make it back from the postponed for 24 hours World Pairs at Vojens the previous day, though Zenon Plech did, but Ivan wasn't scheduled to ride at Sheffield on that day in any case. ... Edited March 15, 2018 by martinmauger spelling, grammar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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