Which rider is to improve the most in 2018

[DC2]

10 hours ago, Col said:

 

Ward was a special talent, while Lambert's same age stats do not compare well to him, they could well do in comparison to Doyle, Holder & Woffinden. 

 

 

Comparing the natural talent of riders at a young age is definitely not the full story. Only Holder maintained year on improvement to becoming World Champion. Doyle stagnated for several seasons as soon as he rode in the Elite League, just like Iversen, and neither looked like being more than 7 pointers, but then, out of the blue and just like Woffinden, they suddenly applied themselves mentally and physically and had breakthrough seasons.

Bewley and Lambert aren’t Lee or Ward but could well follow the path of Iversen.

[Bagpuss]

Exactly. I'm not comfortable with Lambert being compared with this rider or that or having massive expectation lumped on his shoulders. He is currently the best young rider we have and he should be left to develop at his own pace. He is getting good experience across Europe and while there are no doubt things he can improve on both on and off the track he is learning with every meeting and has potentially twenty years of career ahead of him. Best thing is to support him and see where he ends up.

[Gavan]

50 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

His application was appallng and he was still best rider out there. It' scary to think what he would have done once he grown up 

Most talented but wasnt the best as he hadnt won anything.

Had the potential to be World Champion but would he have ever grown up and applied himself..sadly who knows

[Grachan]

11 minutes ago, Gavan said:

Most talented but wasnt the best as he hadnt won anything.

Had the potential to be World Champion but would he have ever grown up and applied himself..sadly who knows

From the way he was during his short stay at Swindon, I would say that yes he would have. There was something about him that I haven't seen in other riders - even Jason Doyle.

[bellevueace]

Lets also not forget the likes of Tommy Jansson when talking about special talents and tragic endings to careers, Tommy was a great talent and another who could have so easily gone on to be world champion.

[stevebrum]

3 hours ago, bellevueace said:

He could also due to lifestyle choice just as easily gone the other way, to say he would have eclipsed the likes of Craven, Collins, Lee etc is a big big statement, one I don't agree with.

Fully agree.  A talent on the bike that's for sure.

However you can only judge on what someone did achieve not what they might have. His own self destruction meant he had too many wasted opportunities to deliver on that ability. 

As a world U21 champ he seemed poised for greater things but no one can be assured what he would have actually achieved. It's purely subjective. 

It's frightening to imagine if he fully applied himself what he could have achieved tho. That's something that we will ever know. 

A great speedway rider that failed to deliver on all that promise. A great pity.

[g13webb]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Comparing the natural talent of riders at a young age is definitely not the full story. Only Holder maintained year on improvement to becoming World Champion. Doyle stagnated for several seasons as soon as he rode in the Elite League, just like Iversen, and neither looked like being more than 7 pointers, but then, out of the blue and just like Woffinden, they suddenly applied themselves mentally and physically and had breakthrough seasons.

Bewley and Lambert aren’t Lee or Ward but could well follow the path of Iversen.

Whilst I do not want to run Lambert down, the reason he is compared with all those top riders was because of his immense talent he showed at a young age.  It is only natural he would suffer from these comparisons.   It was always going to be difficult to continue that devastating form he showed  and anything less than invincible would have been noticed. .   Although still an exceptional rider,  he is now of a class where the competition is so ripe that being top dog is an unbelievable position, that only a  few will reach.   

Top riders like  Doyle and  Iversen  may have arrived late on the top stage. This, no doubt, was achieved through, Hard Work, Belief, Dedication  and Confidence,    It pleasing to note that  age is not that important when looking at past champions,     I'd like to think that Lambert,  who has time on his side,  will take on board all the positives he will learn along the way,    and when that time comes for him to rule the world he will be good and ready... 

[1 valve]

19 hours ago, sommelier said:

How do you make that out ? Gollob COULD do things on a bike that only others could dream of!!!

Loved watching Gollob at his peak. His strength was how he could race on big grippy tracks which was spectacular and could never be written off during a race. Unfortunately put him on small tight or slick tracks and he looked (for him) a totally different (worse) rider.

Mike Lee on the other hand on big, small, tight, slick, grippy tracks at his peak was almost unbeatable. As a Lions fan I hated it! Given the strength of speedway rider talent on display in the UK almost every night at that time it really is a challenge to think of anybody ever being better than Mike the Bike was at his peak.There can be no "he could have been," he was World Champion and top of the strongest league averages by a country mile.

Shame he found it so easy, got bored and became distracted/disenchanted with the sport

[sommelier]

1 hour ago, 1 valve said:

Loved watching Gollob at his peak. His strength was how he could race on big grippy tracks which was spectacular and could never be written off during a race. Unfortunately put him on small tight or slick tracks and he looked (for him) a totally different (worse) rider.

Mike Lee on the other hand on big, small, tight, slick, grippy tracks at his peak was almost unbeatable. As a Lions fan I hated it! Given the strength of speedway rider talent on display in the UK almost every night at that time it really is a challenge to think of anybody ever being better than Mike the Bike was at his peak.There can be no "he could have been," he was World Champion and top of the strongest league averages by a country mile.

Shame he found it so easy, got bored and became distracted/disenchanted with the sport

Agree regarding Lee, at 16 find very unlikely there will be any one better at that age, you might laugh at this, but Lewis Bridger at 16 at Weymouth was very special!

Gollob, never ever seen any one that could turn so late in to a turn, sheer genius

[Bagpuss]

Lewis Bridger is one of the most naturally talented motorcyclists I've seen going round a speedway track in my 30+ years of attending.

Unfortunately there are many more ingredients to being a top speedway rider and sadly he didn't have many of them.

[hyderd]

As good as Darcy was, we will never know if he was as good as J Parker, P Craven,O Fundin P collins,M Lee, B Penhall, T Richardson, E Gunderson the list goes on and on simply because of the bike differences.

So whilst I can understand the Poole fans opinions on D Ward, we will never know the facts

[proud panther]

Lambert needs a more professional pit crew, & a few lessons on gating, & he could go all the way in my opinion. Lee was an amazing talent who was his own worst enemy, very similar to Ward. 

[Sidney the robin]

3 hours ago, sommelier said:

Agree regarding Lee, at 16 find very unlikely there will be any one better at that age, you might laugh at this, but Lewis Bridger at 16 at Weymouth was very special!

Gollob, never ever seen any one that could turn so late in to a turn, sheer genius

Lee at  the age of 16 to be a number 1 in 1975 for Boston in a really tough N.L was some achievement.Lee I was a fan of right until his career went scu wiff.Gollob who only won one World title should of won won more titles he had mega ability i actually rate him higher than Pedersen,Hancock, Woffinden people who  have won more titles people might laugh but everyone to there own eh.!

[ray c]

7 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Lee at  the age of 16 to be a number 1 in 1975 for Boston in a really tough N.L was some achievement.Lee I was a fan of right until his career went scu wiff.Gollob who only won one World title should of won won more titles he had mega ability i actually rate him higher than Pedersen,Hancock, Woffinden people who  have won more titles people might laugh but everyone to there own eh.!

i think michael lee career came to an end in after meeting crash at poole in which he was badly injured may be wrong

[Pinny]

Gollob was very good on big tracks however on the smaller ones he wasnt. 

Hence why id rate hancock, nicki, tai etc above him... they can ride any shaped tracks which makes them better riders

[g13webb]

8 hours ago, ray c said:

i think michael lee career came to an end in after meeting crash at poole in which he was badly injured may be wrong

From someone who knew Mike fairly well, it would be difficult to pinpoint the exact point when his fortunes turned sour .   It was very clear he had no friends in the BSPA  who wouldn't do anything to help his corner.  When he won the WC , you would have thought  he would have been the biggest promotion our sport  could have.  Had he been any other nationality he would have been hailed a hero and treated as such.   But it wasn't like that.  If they could create a problem for Mike. they would.   It was very politically back then  in that the BSPA wanted to rule the sport all over the Europe.  When Ole Olsen came up with this Grand Prix idea,   BSPA said no and arranged other fixtures in competition to  it.   Lee was being pulled from pillar to post.   Mike became very disillusioned.     Sure he wasn't no saint,  but he suffered more than more from  petty political arguments.      Like when they arranged a pointless 4 team meeting on the same weekend as the World Pairs Comp.   Because the WP meeting was rained off for 24 hrs, 6 riders failed to turn up for the 4TT.  But it was only Michael who was fined.    Fined for representing his country. 

The straw that broke the camel back was that  '5yr ban'  that the SCB/BSPA  imposed for a crime he didn't commit .   It was there for all to see, that they were going to get him whatever the costs.....   There was no end to the deception  these people would pull.   An appeal hearing was planned on the Day of the British Final.    With no case to answer, from these concocted lies it was advertise Lee would be riding in that final,    But we all know what happened.  In their determination to rid the him from the sport, they changed the offence and banned him for a year. 

That was the day speedway lost the plot.   You never kill the goose that lays the golden egg, but they most certainly did.    They lost probably the best rider some of us had ever seen,    plus thousands of fans  who turned up each time he rode.  They turned their backs forever....   

 

 

 

[Sidney the robin]

9 hours ago, Pinny said:

Gollob was very good on big tracks however on the smaller ones he wasnt. 

Hence why id rate hancock, nicki, tai etc above him... they can ride any shaped tracks which makes them better riders

He was pretty good at Ipswich !!!!!         ok not great on the man made tracks grant you that  but as a rider he was better than the three named in my opinion and i would still rate Craven,Lee,Collins in front of  Woffinden.Again back to he won more championships argument,          rating somebody on that criteria i am personally against it in my time watching speedway Gollob natural ability wise is there with Lee,Ward.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Sidney the robin

[Sidney the robin]

51 minutes ago, g13webb said:

From someone who knew Mike fairly well, it would be difficult to pinpoint the exact point when his fortunes turned sour .   It was very clear he had no friends in the BSPA  who wouldn't do anything to help his corner.  When he won the WC , you would have thought  he would have been the biggest promotion our sport  could have.  Had he been any other nationality he would have been hailed a hero and treated as such.   But it wasn't like that.  If they could create a problem for Mike. they would.   It was very politically back then  in that the BSPA wanted to rule the sport all over the Europe.  When Ole Olsen came up with this Grand Prix idea,   BSPA said no and arranged other fixtures in competition to  it.   Lee was being pulled from pillar to post.   Mike became very disillusioned.     Sure he wasn't no saint,  but he suffered more than more from  petty political arguments.      Like when they arranged a pointless 4 team meeting on the same weekend as the World Pairs Comp.   Because the WP meeting was rained off for 24 hrs, 6 riders failed to turn up for the 4TT.  But it was only Michael who was fined.    Fined for representing his country. 

The straw that broke the camel back was that  '5yr ban'  that the SCB/BSPA  imposed for a crime he didn't commit .   It was there for all to see, that they were going to get him whatever the costs.....   There was no end to the deception  these people would pull.   An appeal hearing was planned on the Day of the British Final.    With no case to answer, from these concocted lies it was advertise Lee would be riding in that final,    But we all know what happened.  In their determination to rid the him from the sport, they changed the offence and banned him for a year. 

That was the day speedway lost the plot.   You never kill the goose that lays the golden egg, but they most certainly did.    They lost probably the best rider some of us had ever seen,    plus thousands of fans  who turned up each time he rode.  They turned their backs forever....   

 

 

 

Things have not changed to much have they Webby that decision to give him a five year ban would never of stood up in a court of law today.Such a shame also Mike did struggle to get his head around  the new tape rule but he would of adjusted he just had so much frustration that he give up with the sport.That British Final day i was so angry he had his bikes loaded ready to go but they changed it to a 1 year ban the crowd there that night were bemused.I remember there had been a huge petition a real outcry from the public and i thought  the ban would be overturned and maybe changed to a suspended sentence.Going back to Kings Lynn to have Bettsy then Mike for that prolonged period must of been a treat as for me personally Lee on his A game was one of the best riders i have ever seen.He used his slim frame to great affect and the partnership with his dad very influential the gates Lynn used to get then must of been right up there with the largest in the U.K .A real shame how his career ended by the way  when you look back his WF record is very good indeed.

 

[Sidney the robin]

10 hours ago, ray c said:

i think michael lee career came to an end in after meeting crash at poole in which he was badly injured may be wrong

I think he broke his vertebrae in a crash after the meeting  Ray ,      if i remember rightly i think he was going to replace Rossiter.?.?