No TV deal?

[steve roberts]

19 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Heat 15 - nominated riders heat - only really replaces the Rider of the Night Final in old second halves, and that used to be heat 20

We're shortchanged with 15 heat meetings these days

13 heats and proper second halves would be better value, and give a mix of team and individual racing

In the past, many would view the match from outside, then move inside for a drink and to watch the second half - oh, and the riders would join them at the completion of their rides (mind you, the riders were only going home afterwards, not flying off to some foreign land for tomorrow's booking!)

And of course, it wasn't on the tv, so to watch this wonderful sport, attendance at the track was the only way

Ah! The good old days (when SStar had a red cover, was in black and white, and cost less than 2/-)

When Chris Shears was promoter at Cowley (1995) he introduced on one occasion an old second half which was met with enthusiasm by the appreciative Cowley regulars...only to have his wrist slapped by the BSPA in case it set a precedence!

Edited February 23, 2018 by steve roberts

[Starman2006]

I thought this thread was about the TV deal, or suposidly lack of it...

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

I thought this thread was about the TV deal, or suposidly lack of it...

...got lost somewhere in the midst of time! The way of threads and how they deviate!

[Starman2006]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...got lost somewhere in the midst of time! The way of threads and how they deviate!

So it seems mate..

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, Midland Red said:

Heat 15 - nominated riders heat - only really replaces the Rider of the Night Final in old second halves, and that used to be heat 20

We're shortchanged with 15 heat meetings these days

13 heats and proper second halves would be better value, and give a mix of team and individual racing

In the past, many would view the match from outside, then move inside for a drink and to watch the second half - oh, and the riders would join them at the completion of their rides (mind you, the riders were only going home afterwards, not flying off to some foreign land for tomorrow's booking!)

And of course, it wasn't on the tv, so to watch this wonderful sport, attendance at the track was the only way

Ah! The good old days (when SStar had a red cover, was in black and white, and cost less than 2/-)

Big difference between heat 15 and the rider of the night final.

The rider of the night final meant sod all to most supporters and they'd already gone home - a lot of them after heat 13. To people who left after the main match they are getting two more races than they did under the 13 heat format.

[moxey63]

Some mock fans who are stuck in the olden days. But, let's not forget, we are trying to rewind speedway to being as popular as those days. Those were the days we had little TV coverage but terraces were healthy, unlike now, when we have quite-healthy TV coverage but the terraces are mainly for growing weeds. Harping back to the past may infuriate some who protect their love of speedway like a caterpillar in a matchbox, but speedway needs to find what went wrong... otherwise it may as well be in a matchbox that has no holes to breathe.

[steve roberts]

6 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Big difference between heat 15 and the rider of the night final.

The rider of the night final meant sod all to most supporters and they'd already gone home - a lot of them after heat 13. To people who left after the main match they are getting two more races than they did under the 13 heat format.

...we were fortunate at Cowley during the seventies when the Cowley promotion also ran Eastbourne and Peterborough so we got to enjoy watching riders from those teams in the second halves and the fans appeared to appreciate it. In fact it proved so popular that a full blown match between the 'Eagles' and 'Panthers' was put on with Barney Kennett acting as a 'guest' putting it about in style!

Great days!

[Grachan]

10 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...we were fortunate at Cowley during the seventies when the Cowley promotion also ran Eastbourne and Peterborough so we got to enjoy watching riders from those teams in the second halves and the fans appeared to appreciate it. In fact it proved so popular that a full blown match between the 'Eagles' and 'Panthers' was put on with Barney Kennett acting as a 'guest' putting it about in style!

Great days!

I remember at both Reading and Swindon, you'd get a massive crowd gathering around the exit at heat 13, many of whom would run into the car park before the race was even finished. I used to get a lift with one guy who used to do this.

Never understood it myself. Much easier to leave half way through the second half and avoid the queues.

I think some people these days over-estimate what second halves meant to the majority of the crowd.

[BWitcher]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...which only tells part of the story..

Oxford's Marvyn Cox whose career was slowly going stale at Oxford which culminated in a poor 1989 season whereby he finished fifth in the team's averages (6.79) but having asked for a move he spent 1990 at Bradford where he registered an average of 8.62 he finished the season as their number one. The number of teams competing in the league during those seasons remained fixed at nine which obviously indicates that averages are not always what they seem but are sometimes influenced by riders getting a new lease of life and/or stepping out of the shadow of former team mates and/or taken on new challenges and/or responsibilities.

Mick Hines was another example when under the old Rider Control system was forced to leave Ipswich (1976) where he was ranked a second string in a team that had a strong heat leader trio and was allocated to Wimbledon where he rose to the challenge after the tragic death of Dons' number one  Tommy Jansson and increased his average by a good two points beating riders he often struggled against the previous season whilst a 'Witch'.

Personally I don't take too much notice of averages as they only tell part of a more complex picture especially when taken into account varying points limits and team structures as indicated in my previous post. It was often the case that riders with low averages but with 'potential' (sometimes!) managed to secure team spots because of the points limit in place at the expense of middle order averaged riders who were sometimes overlooked (Andy Grahame was a classic example at Cowley when he fell victim on two occasions) 

Very difficult to compare abilities and records and making comparisons from different eras when different criteria were in place as regards to team strengths and make up of same.

 

It doesn't tell part of the story, it tells the whole story. 

It is simply bona fide fact that the more teams there are in a league, the more perceived 'star' riders there will be.

I agree with most of your post but that is just the ebb and flow of individual riders careers and nothing to do with the original point.

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Midland Red said:

Heat 15 - nominated riders heat - only really replaces the Rider of the Night Final in old second halves, and that used to be heat 20

We're shortchanged with 15 heat meetings these days

13 heats and proper second halves would be better value, and give a mix of team and individual racing

In the past, many would view the match from outside, then move inside for a drink and to watch the second half - oh, and the riders would join them at the completion of their rides

In the past. That is the whole point. The sport is still stuck in THE PAST.

Reduce the main meeting by 2 more heats and you may as well shut the gates now.

Folk aren't gullible now and won't be interested in 2nd halves.

[moxey63]

I have been accused so many times of kicking speedway when I don't even go anymore. Maybe I am stuck in the past, a time when I believed that speedway was a credible sport. I used to get angry that it wasn't given the column inches I thought it deserved in the papers. I used to scratch my head that other sports used to be on TV when speedway, I thought, was so much better than them.

But time passes. You can't live in the past. You don't remain gullible. In fact, you get your eyes slowly opened. You get called for giving up on the sport, by some who then tell you dropping two heats from the format and returning to 13 heats, a tried and tested formula from when speedway peaked, who practically say they'll lose interest if two heats are dropped.

Folk aren't as gullible, I hear. But then, I hear the argument that folk are so gullible, they get excited about an extra "ghost" point when their team wins by a certain margin, a point that has no impact on the positions in the actual final analysis. That is gullible. Like all those years we kept aggregate bonus point scores, again nothing changed in final placings with or without them (maybe the one switch in mid-table).

Gullible, to me, turned to being cynical. I gradually began seeing what non-speedway fans saw in our sport. Somewhere during SKY's live coverage of league matches and the following decade, my belief in the sport evaporated. Maybe seeing it through the square box in the front room made me see it through the eyes of non-speedway people.

There is still a place in my heart for speedway. But I just have to overcome my cynicism and get back to being gullible, turning up trackside and thinking the riders I'm cheering on actually are putting in that extra rev for my team, for me as a fan, and not because they want to finish quicker.. they have a match somewhere  else, for another team, later on that day.

I want to be gullible, and believe sides begin the season wanting to win match number one as much as they do the Play-Off Final second leg. Because now, I have it in my mind that there is a sway of piddling about before they get on with the real business, the Play_offs. There is too much leeway for teams to fine tune. What is the point in a series of league matches when sides manipulate their way and try to gain advantages before the Play-Off. And then we all start afresh there.  

I am cynical. But speedway made me this way.

Edited February 23, 2018 by moxey63

[Tsunami]

34 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I have been accused so many times of kicking speedway when I don't even go anymore. Maybe I am stuck in the past, a time when I believed that speedway was a credible sport. I used to get angry that it wasn't given the column inches I thought it deserved in the papers. I used to scratch my head that other sports used to be on TV when speedway, I thought, was so much better than them.

But time passes. You can't live in the past. You don't remain gullible. In fact, you get your eyes slowly opened. You get called for giving up on the sport, by some who then tell you dropping two heats from the format and returning to 13 heats, a tried and tested formula from when speedway peaked, who practically say they'll lose interest if two heats are dropped.

Folk aren't as gullible, I hear. But then, I hear the argument that folk are so gullible, they get excited about an extra "ghost" point when their team wins by a certain margin, a point that has no impact on the positions in the actual final analysis. That is gullible. Like all those years we kept aggregate bonus point scores, again nothing changed in final placings with or without them (maybe the one switch in mid-table).

Gullible, to me, turned to being cynical. I gradually began seeing what non-speedway fans saw in our sport. Somewhere during SKY's live coverage of league matches and the following decade, my belief in the sport evaporated. Maybe seeing it through the square box in the front room made me see it through the eyes of non-speedway people.

There is still a place in my heart for speedway. But I just have to overcome my cynicism and get back to being gullible, turning up trackside and thinking the riders I'm cheering on actually are putting in that extra rev for my team, for me as a fan, and not because they want to finish quicker.. they have a match somewhere  else, for another team, later on that day.

I want to be gullible, and believe sides begin the season wanting to win match number one as much as they do the Play-Off Final second leg. Because now, I have it in my mind that there is a sway of piddling about before they get on with the real business, the Play_offs. There is too much leeway for teams to fine tune. What is the point in a series of league matches when sides manipulate their way and try to gain advantages before the Play-Off. And then we all start afresh there.  

I am cynical. But speedway made me this way.

Forgetting of course the reason you turned cynical then gullible, was when Belle Vue stopped you getting in for nothing and insisted on you paying like every other fan had to do.

Your views are therefore worthless.

[moxey63]

8 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Forgetting of course the reason you turned cynical then gullible, was when Belle Vue stopped you getting in for nothing and insisted on you paying like every other fan had to do.

Your views are therefore worthless.

Yawn. Had a free pass and yet still stopped going. That tells you how it actually happened, not what you've been led to believe. Never mind, a Donald Trump viewpoint has the idiots cheering. Fake news, my friend. Gullible also.

Edited February 23, 2018 by moxey63

[Tsunami]

53 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Yawn. Had a free pass and yet still stopped going. That tells you how it actually happened, not what you've been led to believe. Never mind, a Donald Trump viewpoint has the idiots cheering. Fake news, my friend. Gullible also.

I am quoting what you put on here once, so no fake news, just you trying to deflect the truth. You got in because of a magazine connection, and when that stopped you were expected to pay like everyone else. You chose to walk because you wouldn't pay.

 

Yawn as much as you like, but your truth will follow you.

[BWitcher]

It never ever ceases to amaze me how some spend so much time posting about something they day after day say they no longer have any interest in.

ANYONE, who in a time when the major complaint is the sport doesn't give value for money, thinks reducing the match by two heats is a viable idea has seriously got a screw loose. 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by BWitcher

[A ORLOV]

21 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It never ever ceases to amaze me how some spend so much time posting about something they day after day say they no longer have any interest in.

ANYONE, who in a time when the major complaint is the sport doesn't give value for money, thinks reducing the match by two heats is a viable idea has seriously got a screw loose. 

 

I would prefer it if the meetings were speeded up rather than drop two heats, and if a second half if possible and financially viable then fans can decide to leave or stay.  Look how many complain about the delays at Kings Lynn. 

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Tsunami said:

I am quoting what you put on here once, so no fake news, just you trying to deflect the truth. You got in because of a magazine connection, and when that stopped you were expected to pay like everyone else. You chose to walk because you wouldn't pay.

 

Yawn as much as you like, but your truth will follow you.

Please find me that "quote." If not, please stick to the subject, instead of trying to smear my views. If you don't take my views, then what about all the thousands of lost fans that did pay but no longer attend,. Let's use them as a yardstick. How do we get them back?

[BWitcher]

48 minutes ago, A ORLOV said:

I would prefer it if the meetings were speeded up rather than drop two heats, and if a second half if possible and financially viable then fans can decide to leave or stay.  Look how many complain about the delays at Kings Lynn. 

Completely agree.

Especially on cold nights, the last thing you want is the meeting being dragged out and then the words "10 minute interval".

[Midland Red]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

It never ever ceases to amaze me how some spend so much time posting about something they day after day say they no longer have any interest in.

ANYONE, who in a time when the major complaint is the sport doesn't give value for money, thinks reducing the match by two heats is a viable idea has seriously got a screw loose. 

 

No screw loose, my friend.  The second half gave us the chance of watching individual speedway racing, rather than team racing.

An opportunity to watch the home riders compete AGAINST each other as well as the opposing team members

Boocock v McKinlay ; Mountford v Lightfoot ; Fisher v Craven ; Fundin v Nygren ; Knutsson v Briggs . . . etc

Plus watching the stars of tomorrow develop - at Brandon there was Ron Wilson junior (Ray to you and me), the development of Mitch Shirra, Alf Busk, Rick Miller, Gary Guglielmi etc week on week, from falling off virtually every outing to competing with more established riders

Perhaps the main point you and others are missing is that it was the speedway racing that was the attraction, there were 20 heats to watch (plus invariably the third half!) and it was the only way to watch speedway from one week to the next, without visiting other tracks [this is where my previous post remained on-topic with regard to television]

Dont ever recall leaving after heat 13!

 

[BWitcher]

5 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Please find me that "quote." If not, please stick to the subject, instead of trying to smear my views. If you don't take my views, then what about all the thousands of lost fans that did pay but no longer attend,. Let's use them as a yardstick. How do we get them back?

The problem is most sports have this natural loss of fans, even football. I know of many, many folk who were season ticket holders or regular attenders to football but now don't go, or very infrequently go. However, the difference is, other sports, again especially football have a consistent flow of new supporters. Of course that is mostly down to media coverage.

The sport isn't going to recover by aiming to get 'back' those lost fans.. it has to learn how to attract new fans and keep them.

Unfortunately it is still such a long way behind in it's approach.

Still trying to shun a tv deal that they had finally figured out how to use in a positive fashion (i.e. ensuring there is a decent crowd).

Somehow being unable to find a sponsor for the TV coverage?? Seriously, how is that possible?ANYTHING is better than nothing. "Premiership Speedway brought to you by.." at the start and end of each advert break. Once one company has that, others will show an interest and bid a bit more to get it. Asking stupid prices from the off and ending up with nothing.. where oh where is the benefit in that?