No TV deal?

[OveFundinFan]

Be interested how you go on Bruno. I am on the BT 52mb package as well.

What I would like to do is cancel my 2nd TV package as I only have a 2nd TV to watch speedway during the GP months ie May-Oct - so basicallywant it for 6 months then like to cancel it for 6 months.  Anyone know for a fact if this can be done??

[Aces51]

4 hours ago, bruno said:

My broadband and sport contract is up mid May, has anyone negotiated a deal with them lately. Broadband is the 52mb one I think it's called infinity. Seen in the paper it's £24.99 for new customers, surprise surprise I pay more than that by nearly 50%. I had a good deal when I started with them. I'm paying £10 for the sport, it's just gone up from £7.50. 

For the same package I pay £31.49 for Infinity and get the BT Sport on Sky at half price £5. I negotiated that in January when my contract was up for renewal. From memory I think they wanted to charge me £39 for the broadband but were offering the sport for £5.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Aces51

[bruno]

Thanks for that I'm going to phone in a couple of weeks il let you know how I get on

[BWitcher]

8 hours ago, bellevueace said:

Poor processional meetings in the 60,s and 70,s were the exception today they are the rule.

No they weren't. Every available piece of evidence shows that to be the case.

Why do you think it's ALWAYS been said first from the gate wins.

Hoping the clowns finalise things and announce it soon.

Edited March 8, 2018 by BWitcher

[SCB]

 

 

[RobMcCaffery]

14 hours ago, BWitcher said:

No they weren't. Every available piece of evidence shows that to be the case.

Why do you think it's ALWAYS been said first from the gate wins.

Hoping the clowns finalise things and announce it soon.

One of the more depressing aspects of speedway's "experts" is the inability of too many to understand subtlety. Too often they deal in extremes. The past was either perfect or today totally wrong and so on. There was bad racing in the past just as there is good racing now and there always has to be a bias towards the first out of the gate wining due to the size and surfaces of the tracks.

So we're not talking about a move from perfection to the complete opposite. What I have seen over 46 years is a decline in racing with the bias titling further towards poor racing. I saw bad meetings in the 70s just as I see good matches now. It's the split that has changed.

I particularly object to 'experts' telling me that I am incapable of having an accurate memory. I remember in the mid 70s standing on the terraces with my friends debating how the introduction of four valves was affecting the racing. I also remember becoming depressed in the eighties at the sight of talented riders opening the throttle, going for the outside pass but finding the track too poorly prepared to give them the grip to allow them to succeed.

I am not some simpering idiot clinging to false dreams of an idyllic youth. I am someone with an academic background in history with a lifelong passion for learning more on the subject, not just speedway but in many, many other areas. Generally historical progress is positive but there are losses as well as gains.Yes some people cling to fond memories of their youth and only remember the sunny days. I am NOT one of those. Life is far more complex than that. I also have the ability to reason, and remember. 

The evidence is clear in speedway. Compare the gates in the 70s with those of today. It's not a question of TV coverage but that the product, overall, is no longer an attraction to the general public.

Playing the 'rose tinted glasses' card does damn all to help speedway. It's got a problem and needs to wake up to it. The solutions though are totally in its own hands. Improve the product, get the racing right, get the rules right, regain credibility and loyalty and for god's sake stop shooting the messenger!

 

 

[Stoke Potter]

23 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

The solutions though are totally in its own hands. Improve the product, get the racing right,

 

I would be particularly interested in reading your ideas on how that it is done?  Specifically, how can the racing be improved to the maximum extent?

[BWitcher]

40 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

One of the more depressing aspects of speedway's "experts" is the inability of too many to understand subtlety. Too often they deal in extremes. The past was either perfect or today totally wrong and so on. There was bad racing in the past just as there is good racing now and there always has to be a bias towards the first out of the gate wining due to the size and surfaces of the tracks.

So we're not talking about a move from perfection to the complete opposite. What I have seen over 46 years is a decline in racing with the bias titling further towards poor racing. I saw bad meetings in the 70s just as I see good matches now. It's the split that has changed.

I particularly object to 'experts' telling me that I am incapable of having an accurate memory. I remember in the mid 70s standing on the terraces with my friends debating how the introduction of four valves was affecting the racing. I also remember becoming depressed in the eighties at the sight of talented riders opening the throttle, going for the outside pass but finding the track too poorly prepared to give them the grip to allow them to succeed.

I am not some simpering idiot clinging to false dreams of an idyllic youth. I am someone with an academic background in history with a lifelong passion for learning more on the subject, not just speedway but in many, many other areas. Generally historical progress is positive but there are losses as well as gains.Yes some people cling to fond memories of their youth and only remember the sunny days. I am NOT one of those. Life is far more complex than that. I also have the ability to reason, and remember. 

The evidence is clear in speedway. Compare the gates in the 70s with those of today. It's not a question of TV coverage but that the product, overall, is no longer an attraction to the general public.

Playing the 'rose tinted glasses' card does damn all to help speedway. It's got a problem and needs to wake up to it. The solutions though are totally in its own hands. Improve the product, get the racing right, get the rules right, regain credibility and loyalty and for god's sake stop shooting the messenger!

 

 

Long rambling post which offers no evidence to back up the claims. 

Whereas I can point to every available piece of evidence to back mine up.

Gates and 'quality of racing' quite simply aren't linked to any great level. Otherwise Belle Vue would be sold out every week. Scunthorpe, Peterborough and other tracks that we hear have fantastic racing week in, week out would be attracting big crowds. They aren't. 

The reason the sport is in the mess it is quite simply is it is TOO much like the 70's. 

[steve roberts]

11 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Long rambling post which offers no evidence to back up the claims. 

Whereas I can point to every available piece of evidence to back mine up.

Gates and 'quality of racing' quite simply aren't linked to any great level. Otherwise Belle Vue would be sold out every week. Scunthorpe, Peterborough and other tracks that we hear have fantastic racing week in, week out would be attracting big crowds. They aren't. 

The reason the sport is in the mess it is quite simply is it is TOO much like the 70's. 

...did you attend speedway during the seventies?

[Gunner85]

At long last a two year deal has been announced

[Halifaxtiger]

22 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...did you attend speedway during the seventies?

I think he's right. I went in the early 80's and the racing was no different. My Dad, who went in the early 50's, always said 'first of the gate always wins'.

The only thing is gates are affected by the quality of the racing. I go to Scunthorpe and Belle Vue simply because of the entertainment and I doubt very much if I am the only one.

Stadiums might not be packed because of the quality of the speedway, but its entirely possible that they'd be emptier without it. 

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...did you attend speedway during the seventies?

No, but I did early 80's so pretty close. However, it's not particularly relevant.

Here is my view, to explain it in more details.

A race will always seem better the bigger the crowd and the better the atmosphere. A good race becomes a brilliant race. An average race becomes a good race and so on. The same principle by definition applies to the meeting as a whole. 

The perfect example of this is the 81 Wembley Final at which the racing was overall average. Yes a couple of great heats but many poor one. BUT.. the atmosphere was fantastic and as such it's remembered (rightly so) as one of the best meetings to have been at ever. Had the very same meeting taken place in front of 1000 people it would get called a poor meeting in reality.

So, in the 70's and into the early 80's there were good crowds packing stadiums across the country. The atmosphere was great, local derbies and rivalries were aplenty. Even poor meetings seemed good because of the crowd. 

Then came a series of events.. Penhalls retirement, the death of Sanders/Carter, the troubles of Lee.. and most importantly the race fixing scandals which killed off a lot of press coverage and caused a lot of fans to walk away.

As the decade went on, the age demographic of the sport continued to rise. As with ALL sports as fans grow older they can lose interest, stop attending as regularly (even in football I know of many who were season ticket holders not so long ago but now as they get older have stopped attending). Of course sadly fans also pass away. The sport failed for the most part to attract a younger fan base. The image of it began to be one of mostly 'older' people and it became less trendy for youngsters. Throw in the loss of a number of popular tracks and their support base (not to mention the rivalries they had) and the problems became worse.

As we continued into the 90's and then the 21st century most sports realised they were fighting new battles against other attractions. Many re-invented themselves to an extent.. whereas speedway just carried on with the same old, same old. However now, as the crowds began to fall.. good meetings seemed like average meetings, average meetings became poor meetings. The age of fans continued to rise, the number of youngsters attending continued to fall.

Then throw in the weakening of the top league season on season to drive yet more fans away. The 'dodgy' (being polite) way the sport has been run with regards to the implement of certain rules.. all contributed to driving ever more fans away.. which again adds to the cycle. Now what were previously good meetings to have attended become poor and so on.

Speedway is still a fantastic sport, it just doesn't feel like it often enough anymore.

[Diamondlil]

If you change your broadband /telephone to BT,BT sport is free.

[SCB]

6 minutes ago, Diamondlil said:

If you change your broadband /telephone to BT,BT sport is free.

Only for the first 12 months. It costs me £12.50 now for BT Sports. You can get it for £10 but who doesn't want to watch in HD these days? Apart form my parents!

[Bagpuss]

And mine! They still even watch 101 & 103 rather than 115 & 178 

[bruno]

And me lol, I switched my broadband to bt 12 months ago but only got the first 3 months free, I'm looking forward to calling them to renew my contract. If I'm not happy with the deal I'm tempted to tell em to stick it. Trouble is I want the speedway. Just had Virgin cable down our road so am tempted to ditch Sky as well but I've heard bad reports on Virgin with prices going up while in contract. But they all seem to do that anyway

[The Third Man]

2 hours ago, SCB said:

Only for the first 12 months. It costs me £12.50 now for BT Sports. You can get it for £10 but who doesn't want to watch in HD these days? Apart form my parents!

Got mine free for the 30 months

[steve roberts]

16 hours ago, BWitcher said:

No, but I did early 80's so pretty close. However, it's not particularly relevant.

Here is my view, to explain it in more details.

A race will always seem better the bigger the crowd and the better the atmosphere. A good race becomes a brilliant race. An average race becomes a good race and so on. The same principle by definition applies to the meeting as a whole. 

The perfect example of this is the 81 Wembley Final at which the racing was overall average. Yes a couple of great heats but many poor one. BUT.. the atmosphere was fantastic and as such it's remembered (rightly so) as one of the best meetings to have been at ever. Had the very same meeting taken place in front of 1000 people it would get called a poor meeting in reality.

So, in the 70's and into the early 80's there were good crowds packing stadiums across the country. The atmosphere was great, local derbies and rivalries were aplenty. Even poor meetings seemed good because of the crowd. 

Then came a series of events.. Penhalls retirement, the death of Sanders/Carter, the troubles of Lee.. and most importantly the race fixing scandals which killed off a lot of press coverage and caused a lot of fans to walk away.

As the decade went on, the age demographic of the sport continued to rise. As with ALL sports as fans grow older they can lose interest, stop attending as regularly (even in football I know of many who were season ticket holders not so long ago but now as they get older have stopped attending). Of course sadly fans also pass away. The sport failed for the most part to attract a younger fan base. The image of it began to be one of mostly 'older' people and it became less trendy for youngsters. Throw in the loss of a number of popular tracks and their support base (not to mention the rivalries they had) and the problems became worse.

As we continued into the 90's and then the 21st century most sports realised they were fighting new battles against other attractions. Many re-invented themselves to an extent.. whereas speedway just carried on with the same old, same old. However now, as the crowds began to fall.. good meetings seemed like average meetings, average meetings became poor meetings. The age of fans continued to rise, the number of youngsters attending continued to fall.

Then throw in the weakening of the top league season on season to drive yet more fans away. The 'dodgy' (being polite) way the sport has been run with regards to the implement of certain rules.. all contributed to driving ever more fans away.. which again adds to the cycle. Now what were previously good meetings to have attended become poor and so on.

Speedway is still a fantastic sport, it just doesn't feel like it often enough anymore.

I agree with much of what you say however you did use the term "Too much like the seventies" which was somewhat different to the gradual decline of the sport during the eighties (which is the era you cite some specific examples) which has continued to this day.

During the height of the seventies the sport was in a relatively healthy state (certainly compared to today) where the national press (Mirror, People, Express) sponsored, as well as covered, not only meetings but test matches and/or tournaments and there was generally an abundance of national sponsorships which, again, backed leagues (Gulf Oil for example) specific meetings/test matches/tournaments and obviously riders.

The sport was featured regularly on national/local TV (World of Sport in particular...the end of that franchise during the middle eighties certainly had an effect on the sport) and even the BBC showed highlighted meetings occasionally so the sport must have been deemed attractive and/or doing something right to warrant such coverage.

Plus the fact that the national team drew plaudits and created interest which the advent of the old British League Division Two helped to fuel before an abundance of foreigners and other factors changed things in subsequent decades.  

Okay those who were around during the seventies saw the advent of the four valve engine and the gradual parting of the ways of the two leagues which the effects of both became apparent as the sport moved into the eighties and beyond.

Yes there were issues during the seventies as there was during the sixties and fifties (when the sport was struggling towards the back end of that particular decade) but personally I feel that the seventies offered much and I'm thankful that I was able to experience both the highs and lows of that particular decade.

Whether the actual quality of the racing was any better is always going to cause debate. My dad went during the late forties and early fifties and always said that the racing was better then but the subject is always subjective and often based on personal preferences and bias and fans will always cite that the racing was better during any particular period in which they attended.

As regards attracting younger fans? That's the biggest challenge that faces the sport and I have no answers to that particular question although I have some rather contentious views on the subject which I'll keep to myself!

As regards the sport having to "re-invent" itself is open to debate and conjecture as fundamentally it's about four riders (with slight variations on occasions) circumnavigating an oval track and how far should the sport deviate from that in an attempt to attract a new audience will always divide opinion.Tweaking rules here and there is not the answer in my view but beyond that what are the possibilities?

Edited March 10, 2018 by steve roberts

[BWitcher]

Good post Steve. 

What I mean by too much like the seventies is the overall package. Presentation wise, very little has changed. The racing itself doesn't need changing. 

[moxey63]

15 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Good post Steve. 

What I mean by too much like the seventies is the overall package. Presentation wise, very little has changed. The racing itself doesn't need changing. 

I feel all warm inside... Trump and that North Korean bloke meeting up for a few bevvies, and now BWitcher and Steve Roberts on here agree with each other. If you would have told me this last week I'd have laughed.. laughed I tell ya.