No TV deal?

[bigcatdiary]

13 hours ago, flagrag said:

Every Sky Speedway meeting cost over 35k a meeting and that does not include Sky staffing costs in Osterley or the actual airtime and satellite uplink capacity which Sky have long term lease via BT media & Broadcast. 

Obviously I am unable to go into every cost but can give you a few examples over £1000 a meeting for catering,£2500 for power,£1100 for scaffolding, £200+ for security, Temporary Internet circuits £1400 Most experienced cameraman on excess of £500 a day plus travel.

BT did a very good job in 2017 in cutting the OB and production costs but in my opinion that did show on screen with less cameras and older OB equipment. Some of the savings were Made like on catering, security and less staffing, cranes 

In 2018 I I understand that the production budget has been increased so there will be some on screen benefits which is good.

i read with great interest in the thoughts and comments about a highlight package and magazine style programme in the week.

This very nearly happened in 2014 on Sky sports in addition to the live coverage it was all costed out but the BSPA were not happy about this and it never got off the ground as some clubs feared it would affect attendances and some put pressure on local video companies to not provide footage for this and also into live productions.

It still shocks me that Speedway is not able to attract a TV programme sponsor as there are a number of high profile companies involved now with clubs but did hear that at one point that Go Speed were asking for unrealistic prices whether they would take less now who knows. Even if they only got 25k for these rights better than nothing 

Sounds promising, thanks for the update.

[RobMcCaffery]

13 hours ago, flagrag said:

i read with great interest in the thoughts and comments about a highlight package and magazine style programme in the week.

This very nearly happened in 2014 on Sky sports in addition to the live coverage it was all costed out but the BSPA were not happy about this and it never got off the ground as some clubs feared it would affect attendances and some put pressure on local video companies to not provide footage for this and also into live productions.

It still shocks me that Speedway is not able to attract a TV programme sponsor as there are a number of high profile companies involved now with clubs but did hear that at one point that Go Speed were asking for unrealistic prices whether they would take less now who knows. Even if they only got 25k for these rights better than nothing 

Thanks once again for the data and an informed update. You may be amused to know that the budget for Screen Sport coverage in 1984-6 covered three cameramen (one of whom was the producer), one director, one vision mixer, occasionally a 'gofer'and one commentator, very occasionally backed-up by a pit interviewer or co-commentator. That budget? £1000 an hour.......

A highlights show or something on the lines of my old news review - with suitably upgraded content and presenter (1984-6 budget about £100 a show excluding studio time) would have been a superb addition to the coverage, but not replacement as some here have been arguing for. 

The fact that certain promoters saw it as a threat and still seem to view any coverage similarly now and the inept failure to find a sponsor must be connected, don't you think? 

 

[TheReturn]

16 hours ago, flagrag said:

over £1000 a meeting for catering

Thanks for the info Flagrag.  This cost puzzled me though, I am not sure how many staff you have per meeting, but £1000 on catering seems excessive... Give them all Big Mac's, might be cheaper

[flagrag]

The Return- On Sky Speedway OBs there could often be in excess of 30 staff on site  all the staff always got a hot meal and pudding & tea/Coffee then often a sandwiches depending on location.

You have to remember the catering company have got the costs of bringing their kitchen and canteen trucks as well as food costs.

This is something that BT have done away as well as staffing and camera numbers.

[Grand Central]

32 minutes ago, flagrag said:

The Return- On Sky Speedway OBs there could often be in excess of 30 staff on site  all the staff always got a hot meal and pudding & tea/Coffee then often a sandwiches depending on location.

You have to remember the catering company have got the costs of bringing their kitchen and canteen trucks as well as food costs.

This is something that BT have done away as well as staffing and camera numbers.

Hilarious

£30 plus a head for grub at work.

I'll have have the lobster, darling!

Edited February 19, 2018 by Grand Central

[flagrag]

Grand Central- I would like to see what caterers you can find to come to site with Kitchen and canteen truck to seat upto 30 people  to offer choice of two hot meals and a dessert then offer a choice of cobs/Sandwiches for later on. Need to be on site from 12:30- 18:30 

This company have to be prepared to travel U.K. wide if you can find somebody let me know as have lots of work to throw their way.

[Stainlesssteelride]

Can't they take a packed lunch like most people do to work.?? 

[A ORLOV]

15 minutes ago, Stainlesssteelride said:

Can't they take a packed lunch like most people do to work.?? 

A meal is available for the staff at about 6pm because they are at the track till about 11pm, I am not sure, as I am not at the track midday,  if the catering also provides a lunch as well for all the crew who are on site all day as they have to set up the towers, cables around the stadium etc.

But to travel from their base and provide a choice of hot food for the number of people there are, £1000 seems a reasonable price.

[steve roberts]

I was never really sure who was being targeted when 'Live' TV domestic speedway transmissions commenced, if I recall, during the late nineties/early noughties? 

1. Was it to try and attract newcomers (which it has largely failed to do if past and apparently present attendance figures are to be taken into account)?

2. An attempt to appease those already familiar with the sport and allowing them access to matches that they were unable to attend?

3. Was it to attract potentially new national sponsors which again hasn't really materialised when viewing the bigger picture?

I recall when attending meetings that were being covered by SKY that the attendance appeared to be somewhat down in number (I knew someone who preferred to watch from the comfort of his own armchair rather than attend if a meeting was being televised at his local track) and although it has been said that the staging promotion was compensated however it hardly came across well on camera to the casual viewer.

But more importantly where did the SKY money go and who benefited?

Obviously 'Live' broadcasts have benefitted other sports but speedway has never really enjoyed the mass media attention that other sports have enjoyed and has struggled to compete within the nation's mindset and/or culture.

 

[False dawn]

A Good analysis Steve Roberts from speedway's point of view.

The reason Sky put speedway on TV was for none of the reasons you put forward of course. They wanted more people to sign up for their subscription services and increase their income.

But would any of us have refused to have speedway on TV though? But did we make the most of putting our league sport in the shop window alongside the GPs and SWC? It has taken us many seasons to realise that it's important to have a good crowd at televised meetings and take actions to make this happen. Of course, this season we have a much bigger problem. With fixed racing nights, any televised meetings are inevitably competing with other live meetings impacting the attendance of several meetings not just one. Another need for fixture planning (err, what's that)? 

[Starman2006]

10 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I was never really sure who was being targeted when 'Live' TV domestic speedway transmissions commenced, if I recall, during the late nineties/early noughties? 

1. Was it to try and attract newcomers (which it has largely failed to do if past and apparently present attendance figures are to be taken into account)?

2. An attempt to appease those already familiar with the sport and allowing them access to matches that they were unable to attend?

3. Was it to attract potentially new national sponsors which again hasn't really materialised when viewing the bigger picture?

I recall when attending meetings that were being covered by SKY that the attendance appeared to be somewhat down in number (I knew someone who preferred to watch from the comfort of his own armchair rather than attend if a meeting was being televised at his local track) and although it has been said that the staging promotion was compensated however it hardly came across well on camera to the casual viewer.

But more importantly where did the SKY money go and who benefited?

Obviously 'Live' broadcasts have benefitted other sports but speedway has never really enjoyed the mass media attention that other sports have enjoyed and has struggled to compete within the nation's mindset and/or culture.

 

You've basically said what others have said Steve. Crowds are down come Sky/BT meetings, thats why you have to dangle a carrot, in the shape of cheaper admission. The sky money went to all the clubs that participated, unless you know differently, i have also said and somebody else also said you will not attract new fans unless the product is good you give the sport more exposure, our local paper does a brilliant job of promoting the sport in poole,  and a  highlights slot on TV wouldnt go amiss. But first and formost you need to dangle that carrot to get people in..

Edited February 20, 2018 by Starman2006

[bigcatdiary]

4 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

You've basically said what others have said Steve. Crowds are down come Sky/BT meetings, thats why you have to dangle a carrot, in the shape of cheaper admission. The sky money went to all the clubs that participated, unless you know differently, i have also said and somebody else also said you will not attract new fans unless the product is good you give the sport more exposure, our local paper does a brilliant job of promoting the sport in poole,  and a  highlights slot on TV wouldnt go amiss. But first and formost you need to dangle that carrot to get people in..

You also need to serve up competitive and decent racing and let’s be fair most of what was served up last year just didn’t cut it.

Borefests, riders struggling on difficult tracks and racing being shown in front of one man and his dog does nothing to promote the sport at all. 

[SCB]

On 19/02/2018 at 3:27 PM, TheReturn said:

Thanks for the info Flagrag.  This cost puzzled me though, I am not sure how many staff you have per meeting, but £1000 on catering seems excessive... Give them all Big Mac's, might be cheaper

It’s quite simple, if you have 30-odd people in attendance working for you then you don’t want them all buggering off off-site for an hours lunch. Any problems and you’re waiting for the tech guy, or the director, of the camera man, or the graphics operator etc to come back for lunch. Provide a decent lunch for them on site and they’re all around if something goes wrong.

[SCB]

On 19/02/2018 at 4:33 PM, Grand Central said:

Hilarious

£30 plus a head for grub at work.

I'll have have the lobster, darling!

£30 a head for two meals plus snacks? It’s hardly expensive is it? If you took everyone to the local pub for a meal it’d probably cost more.

Don’t forget that the crew won’t all turn up at 7.30! They’ll have been there all day setting up. I work every two months on an off-site broadcast for BBC Wales (very question time-ish) and the crew are there form anything between 8-10am for a 10pm record time. I don’t think providing two meals, snacks and all the tea/coffee we can drink is bad going for £30 a person!

[Grand Central]

mea culpa

Clearly I am totally in the wrong.

My view was born of spending my entire working life either eating before or after work and paying myself for all my meals and snaks whilst at work.
Even when I workied unusal shifts.>

This is a very different world, clearly.

Can I suggest that we all club together to support a 'fighting fund' for those poor deprived souls who worked for BTSport in 2017.
Now I understand their plight of being denied catering facilities I empathise with their cruel and unusual working conditions much more keenly.

[SCB]

2 hours ago, Grand Central said:

mea culpa

Clearly I am totally in the wrong.

My view was born of spending my entire working life either eating before or after work and paying myself for all my meals and snaks whilst at work.
Even when I workied unusal shifts.>

This is a very different world, clearly.

Can I suggest that we all club together to support a 'fighting fund' for those poor deprived souls who worked for BTSport in 2017.
Now I understand their plight of being denied catering facilities I empathise with their cruel and unusual working conditions much more keenly.

As I said, it doesn't work as simply as when you work in an office and have plenty of time. Imagine at 12.30 you have an issue with the lining up of a graphic, you ask for the graphic guy but he's just gone for his lunch. So you wait an hour for him to return, then he gets back at 1.30 but the cameraman whos camera you need to line up for the graphics has now gone for his lunch. 2.15 comes and he's back, yay but now the vision mixer has gone for her lunch so you now have to wait until 3pm for her to come back to fix the issue. The problem you had at 12.30 still isn't fixed until 3pm but had they all been sat at their desk eating a site supplied meal then that probably would have been fixed by 12.45.

Its not like most jobs where you ring the client and say, "sorry, everything is delayed a few hours, the project will be with you tomorrow instead", TV is happening at whatever time you're going to air. When it comes to live TV you can cut all the corners you like but it will tell, very easily and very quickly!

[Tsunami]

19 minutes ago, SCB said:

As I said, it doesn't work as simply as when you work in an office and have plenty of time. Imagine at 12.30 you have an issue with the lining up of a graphic, you ask for the graphic guy but he's just gone for his lunch. So you wait an hour for him to return, then he gets back at 1.30 but the cameraman whos camera you need to line up for the graphics has now gone for his lunch. 2.15 comes and he's back, yay but now the vision mixer has gone for her lunch so you now have to wait until 3pm for her to come back to fix the issue. The problem you had at 12.30 still isn't fixed until 3pm but had they all been sat at their desk eating a site supplied meal then that probably would have been fixed by 12.45.

Its not like most jobs where you ring the client and say, "sorry, everything is delayed a few hours, the project will be with you tomorrow instead", TV is happening at whatever time you're going to air. When it comes to live TV you can cut all the corners you like but it will tell, very easily and very quickly!

Quite agree with everything. It is not your normal firms eating habits where some can go missing on an early lunch, followed by those on a later lunch. A job such as a TV programme, an open concert, a horse racing meeting,  outside broadcast for a important news item, etc, is dynamic and can only be completed when the workforce needs to be on call, hence a standard chuck wagon on site which is available to all. For the same reason for keeping in contact just in case, the workforce often have  walkie talkies if the site is on various activities spread out and out of sight.

[Aces51]

 

Why not have the chuck wagon but make the staff pay for their food? Most people don't expect their employer to feed them for free.

[A ORLOV]

12 hours ago, SCB said:

£30 a head for two meals plus snacks? It’s hardly expensive is it? If you took everyone to the local pub for a meal it’d probably cost more.

Don’t forget that the crew won’t all turn up at 7.30! They’ll have been there all day setting up. I work every two months on an off-site broadcast for BBC Wales (very question time-ish) and the crew are there form anything between 8-10am for a 10pm record time. I don’t think providing two meals, snacks and all the tea/coffee we can drink is bad going for £30 a person!

Also note that when sky turned up there were two vehicles, one preparing, cooking and serving the food and a second with seats and tables for them to use as a canteen. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by A ORLOV

[Starman2006]

13 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

You also need to serve up competitive and decent racing and let’s be fair most of what was served up last year just didn’t cut it.

Borefests, riders struggling on difficult tracks and racing being shown in front of one man and his dog does nothing to promote the sport at all. 

Thats what i said in my post. The product has to be there..