IainB Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 The only time team racing ever seems to work are when the rules are contrived to make the teams equal on paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 For sure the racing will be better at BV and in the final ...... to be fair in the SWC there were always riders out of their depth ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Trees said: For sure the racing will be better at BV and in the final ...... to be fair in the SWC there were always riders out of their depth ..... But in the SWC, 'good' riders couldn't just coast around, settling for third behind a team mate, by beating one of their out of their depth opponents as every point counted.. Invariably you would have, at least, three similar level riders in most SWC races all throwing bikes at each other to gain that extra point... It will be interesting to see how the Final unravels when all the 'weak links' are out... I can see some real issues with riders slowing up to help a team mate, as instead of one rider twenty five yards back having to anticipate it and react, there may well be three riders all within fifteen yards taking evasive action... Could be 'interesting'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 Well that was sh!te. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 What a complete joke that meeting was. Do the riders , or the commentators know the meaning of a pairs meeting. There were only a couple of races worth watching. What a couple of idiots Tatum and Pearson are, they did not know the rules of the comp and at the end of heat 20 they kept telling us that in heat 21 neither Latvia nor Slovenia could get through to the farcical play off for third, only for Slovenia to get through to heat 22. It is time these two were dumped by BT. If tues is no better this comp should be dumped as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces High Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 Is Gino ok? Felt awful watching that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 I've seen my fair share of disappointing qualifiers in the World Cup in the four team version. A lot of times you had two teams of a higher standard than the other two. The run off and final meetings should be better whatever format you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) Does anyone know why there are two meetings, one fri and one sat and what is the point rather than one meeting ? Edited June 2, 2018 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: Does anyone know why there are two meetings, one fri and one sat and what is the point rather than one meeting ? I think it's the same meeting twice over with cumulative scores across the two meetings. (presumably only the riding order changes) top cumulative scorers through to the final, 2nd and 3rd run off to reach the final. "winner" of the final are champions. "winner" might be finishing 2nd and 3rd. I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: Does anyone know why there are two meetings, one fri and one sat and what is the point rather than one meeting ? There is no 'point' at all. In Speedway terms. People have put forward the reason as the SWC had 4 meetings and TV contracts etc may 'demand' a similar number of meetings in this half-arsed replacement. Who knows. Just prolonging the embarrasment I would have said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 It’s so contrived when a team could go unbeaten on Friday and Saturday and be top scorers by 20 points or even more ahead of second place and still not be the champions. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: What a complete joke that meeting was. Do the riders , or the commentators know the meaning of a pairs meeting. There were only a couple of races worth watching. What a couple of idiots Tatum and Pearson are, they did not know the rules of the comp and at the end of heat 20 they kept telling us that in heat 21 neither Latvia nor Slovenia could get through to the farcical play off for third, only for Slovenia to get through to heat 22. It is time these two were dumped by BT. If tues is no better this comp should be dumped as well. I wouldn't normally have a pop at the commentators as it's not a job I could do but that was embarrassing tonight!! In a poor meeting the only point of interest was the result of heat 21 deciding who would meet Denmark in the run off for the last place (as heat 22 was defunct thanks to USA not picking a reserve [as an aside it would have been a better meeting if they'd selected Ricky Wells]) yet we were continually told during the ridiculous break before heat 21 that it was a dead rubber. The one bit of faux drama the meeting provided for the commentators to add colour and they failed to work out that even a 3-3 would have taken one of the teams past Ukraine. That's just adding up which is a basic requirement for following a speedway meeting. Doesn't Pearson do darts? And that's take aways!!! How does he cope...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Rico said: So glad I watched it on delayed coverage and it only took about an hour of my life up. Absolutely awful meeting, format might work with equal standard teams. Cringey watching Danes celebrate beating the mighty Slovenia to attain their final place. Dire fare all round tonight. Tuesday should be better on a decent track. Final may be better still with more equal sides. Rico Tuesday will see only three teams really capable of going through bar some bizarre event as GB, Australia and Sweden are far too strong for the rest and Milik on his own cant save the Czechs. So basically three heats of equal standards and twenty just to fill up the programme. Hope GB give Bewley a few rides even if it's against the mighty Finland and Italy. May be a great track but not a great format unless it's the finals with seven capable teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 Can Belle Vue please provide an Abacus for Waldorf and Stadler as they seem to struggle with basic maths going into the prenultamate heat when one team was sure to progress at the expense of Ukraine and with USA down to one rider the first knock out race wasn't worth running. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said: Tuesday will see only three teams really capable of going through bar some bizarre event as GB, Australia and Sweden are far too strong for the rest and Milik on his own cant save the Czechs. So basically three heats of equal standards and twenty just to fill up the programme. Hope GB give Bewley a few rides even if it's against the mighty Finland and Italy. May be a great track but not a great format unless it's the finals with seven capable teams. Why would they give Bewley a few rides when he is not in the team, the last I heard it was Woofy, Cook and Lambert, but Lambert should be given a few rides 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said: Tuesday will see only three teams really capable of going through bar some bizarre event as GB, Australia and Sweden are far too strong for the rest and Milik on his own cant save the Czechs. So basically three heats of equal standards and twenty just to fill up the programme. Hope GB give Bewley a few rides even if it's against the mighty Finland and Italy. May be a great track but not a great format unless it's the finals with seven capable teams. Bewley isn’t in the team anymore. He should never have been given the place according to the rules. Yet another Rosco mess up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, TheReturn said: I do take your point Tyler, but most seasons it would be Poland v one other nation who happen to have a good four riders capable of matching Poland. At least with this format there should be three or four nations capable of putting decent pair of riders together. Even though Poland have won quite a few times. I still think the finals have been very competitive. Last year was the worst in terms of scores, as Poland won it by a big margin. They scored 50 the third place team Russia scored 18!! but if you look at the last four finals before that, the scores have been very close. and in two of them finals Denmark won one and Sweden the other. I agree with you that in theory it should give more nations a chance to be competitive. Lets hope Tuesdays fair produces a bit better racing than tonight and hopefully we will see a great final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 hours ago, marko said: Not being funny Phil but will Aces fans be supporting Woffy as we all know what they think of him. Not all GB fans present will be Aces fans. Anyone would be pathetic for not supporting ANY rider representing team GB on Tuesday. Plus we have our best and realistically only chance of achieving something with Woffy riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Some seem to have very short memories, there were many 'qualifying' events in the World Cup in years gone by that were similarly poor with out of depth teams. It was always the race off and Final where things stepped up a notch and I daresay that will be the case in the Final of this event. Also, why are people moaning so much about the team being 2nd and 3rd going through? You might bleat they won the race... they also came last in the race. It's a pairs event. Come last, you're out. I can remember many, many occasions in the past when Wolves needed a 4-2 in the final heat.. if Ermolenko was in it for example, he wouldn't just clear off if he made the gate, he'd do everything he could to slow the race down, change lines and get his partner through.. and many times was successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Busy weekend so had to watch this on delay tonight and for once I really do wish I hadn't bothered. The line about adding to the variety of teams and giving those a chance who couldn't raise a full four man team. Well, several 'teams' tonight couldn't raise two competitive riders. It was a night of nostalgia, but not of the pleasant kind, watching Germany capitalising on home advantage on a crap track in a poor stadium. It was so reminiscent of Norden in 1983, but for some reason we have to do our bit to prop up German speedway by allocating meetings to their inadequate tracks. Oh yes, another bit of nostalgia, 'Pocking Hell'. Oh for the good old World Team Cup, whatever happened to it? Then next week, more nostalgia with a two day final. Oh the triumph of Amsterdam in 1987! Some learn from mistakes. The FIM just plough on, propping up the backwoods of speedway while letting major nations go to pot (Poland excepted) as a result. The tail has wagged the dog at the FIM for decades. Back in the 70s the World Championship qualifying system was rigged to favour the east Europeans with the result being endless Pole, Russian and Czech no-hopers occupying the bottom of the scorechart. Nothing changes - the minor nations had too much say then and do have now, although who is major and who is minor has changed. We didn't need to change to a poor race format to get the Latvian upset last year and I very much doubt whether we'll see any this year, apart from pious comments about "wonderful to see the minor nations competing", - but are they? Will they? They're in the meeting and while some had one good, competitive rider overall they were just making up the numbers. The only surprises tonight were how poor the Latvians were after last year's success and even with home advantage, how many the Germans scored. The track looked inconsistent and was catching too many quality riders out. There was nothing on the outside line with the little racing on offer giving 'kerb crawling' a bad name.... The delays at the end were unacceptable but the least acceptable aspect of the whole TV 'extravaganza' was the commentary over heat 21. Declaring both teams out so definitively was sloppy commentating and well below the normal or required standard. I'm sure both they and their producer will know as well. Surely someone on the production team can monitor the scores and tell the commentary team when they're wrong? I know back in the early days of Sky coverage the late Bryn Williams was on hand to advise Tony Millard if necessary. Like someone else said, it made even One Sport's pairs events look good and I never thought I'd ever say that! Let's hope for better on Tuesday, and that we aren't bored rigid by 42 qualifying heats to see who makes it to a final where it's not about winning, just not finishing last. Good luck, explaining that to those casual viewers that are so carefully cared for in the commentary! Pairs events just do not suit knock-out systems. I was going to say winner takes all but, well, er.....can you hype "second and third TAKE ALL". I fear we will find out all too soon. It's okay having semis and finals for events like the Championship Pairs at Somerset - that's a fun night out before Cardiff. This isn't, and certainly "Raceoff 1" was far from amusing, unless you were a drunk German....... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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