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Just now, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Being passed by Emil was irrelevant - it would've meant 2nd place just the same as his heat win

Attempting the team ride even if it had a 1 in 100 chance of coming off was a 1 in 100 greater chance than taking the heat win provided of lifting the title

 

THE simple fact is that Lambert had to beat Sayfutdinov in the final heat of effectively a World Final. In a couple of years maybe but after four third places in six rides it was unlikely and unrealistic unless he got ahead with Tai, which he didn't. No criticism of Lambert.

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3 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

 

NOT when the opposition were ahead

The thing is,it didn’t matter in previous heats,did it?If Tai got a 3-3 by winning the heat,it was the same as letting the leader go and helping Robert finish 3rd.Only harder work

1 minute ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE simple fact is that Lambert had to beat Sayfutdinov in the final heat of effectively a World Final. In a couple of years maybe but after four third places in six rides it was unlikely and unrealistic unless he got ahead with Tai, which he didn't. No criticism of Lambert.

4 third places and another one would have given us the title.It was worth a try at least seeing as Robert had done it 4 times already!!!

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2 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE simple fact is that Lambert had to beat Sayfutdinov in the final heat of effectively a World Final. In a couple of years maybe but after four third places in six rides it was unlikely and unrealistic unless he got ahead with Tai, which he didn't. No criticism of Lambert.

Are you being stubborn to avoid admitting your statements of last night were wrong, it's ok to reflect and admit you may have got it wrong Philip.

Why can't you get this?  Yes Robert passing Emil was always going to be a tall order, but if Tai was in front of Emil placing his bike in awkward positions for Emil then it gave Robert a tiny additional chance to get through. He wasn't that far off as it was anyway, so throw Tai into the mix and who knows.

 

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The only way to argue that the fend for yourself tactic was correct is if you genuinely believe that Tai trying to team ride would've HINDERED Lamberts chances of passing Emil

Is anyone prepared to say they believe that to be the case??

Edited by dontforgetthefueltapsbruv
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2 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

Quite right, you are entitled to an opinion... your opinion is the wrong opinion on this occasion.

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3 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

Totally agree

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2 hours ago, moxey63 said:

It’s all about opinions. Woffinden rode really well this week, no taking that away from him. But I rate riders on how they have performed domestically - and who was in opposing starting slots when in championship racing. So, therefore, during my 40-odd years (since 1975) I put the likes of Mauger, Nielsen, Rickardsson, Crump etc in the lead. Comparisons should be, I feel, on 10-15 year periods. I must say though since about 2010 the level of competition in world speedway has dramatically dropped. I am not going to name names of current day men, but Jason Crump racing now… he could win it on a moped. Regarding Tai being the best Brit… on domestic form over here? Give your head a wobble. Two world titles, ok, but, with respect, against a near 50 year-old  who in recent times turned into being the best, I would say, simply because the best had retired (he won his second title two decades after his first, which tells you) and another man who lifted the crown who perhaps would not have stood a chance in other years?  

The names you named plus Collins,Michanek,Olsen,Lee you would like to think from the year 2000 in there pomp they would of had a chance of winning title's.All hyphaphetical i know all about opinions but Moxey is your opinion blinded by your love of the one- off Final??I am of the same opinion as you and the Series is not a love of mine i prefer team racing but i do respect what the Series has done for the few???I agree with the 10/ 15 year period on judging and Tai is probably only after Ricko/ Crump in the modern day pecking order also when Crump retired those bad burns he received were the reason.In the History of the sport Nielsen and Crump certainly deserved to have won more  World titles.

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4 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

Respect your opinion Phil

However my point was would trying have improved the chances.  Even if the odds were 1 in a million by your thinking they only had to be improved to 1 in 999,999 to be a better option

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3 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him not matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong.

I think you are missing the point. People aren't saying it would have neccesarily got Lambert through, they are saying that it was, in the situation, worth a try because, even if Emil had then got past Tai, it made no difference.

And, imagine if Laguta had seen Tai doing that and decided to also drop back to try and help Emil. What a race we would have had!

I think the main reason people were disappointed is because they thought Tai might do thst. Had it been Australia, for example, I don't think anyone would have expected Doyle to try to get his partner through as he had shown no such inclinations in other races.

On reflection, I think the plan in the final was for Robert Lambert to gate and for Tai to support him to go for the win, but the whole thing went out the window when the Russians both gated ahead so we were playing catch up with no plan B. In retrospect it's probably harsh to criticise Tai, who was in a position he wasn't expecting and had to make a snap decision to go after the Russians.

 

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26 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

Quote from Laguta after the meeting - “It showed we needed to work harder and we did it in the final qualifier. In the Grand Final, we knew second and third would give us gold, so we planned to let Tai go and try to hold those places.”

Maybe Laguta did slow up a bit to allow Tai to pass and Lambert didn't really try the outside pass, so Emil kept him stuck round the line.

Edited by LesR
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There are some people on here who will never be pleased.    All this talk of Woffy dropping back to help Lambert  is so bias  and contradicts the tremendous achievement they made. .   Only Woffy can answer for the way he rode, and the choices he choose.  but to me he was immense, and rode his heart out for the cause.     The rules stank, the point scoring was rubbish, Blame them if you like ,     but for a team who outscored everyone else, a team that did the most team riding of the lot, the team that won the final have nothing to be  questioned about.   Both Woffy and Lambert were brilliant,   to me they were the right full winners..     

It was the organiser who got it wrong.     Team riding was never rewarded during the meeting, yet  in the final coming second  was deemed the winner.....

 PS,,,  Hope you  haven't forgotten the 3 man semi final fiasco .   

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9 minutes ago, LesR said:

Quote from Laguta after the meeting - “It showed we needed to work harder and we did it in the final qualifier. In the Grand Final, we knew second and third would give us gold, so we planned to let Tai go and try to hold those places.”

Maybe Laguta did slow up a bit to allow Tai to pass and Lambert didn't really try the outside pass, so Emil kept him stuck round the line.

Laguta never slowed to let Tai past, I'm sure, but, as soon as Tai goes past him you can see that he immediately looked round to see where Emil was.

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6 minutes ago, g13webb said:

There are some people on here who will never be pleased.

FFS, why don't you people get it. Why is talk of Tai dropping back biased?   It's not biased to simply suggest that the they got the tactics wrong. 

You're right they made a tremendous achievement, but the record books will show the winners were Russia. who got their tactics right.  

Edited by TheReturn
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35 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

It sounds like you've given up on life Philip.

If you're not going to try and win, why enter the competition?

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2 minutes ago, g13webb said:

There are some people on here who will never be pleased.    All this talk of Woffy dropping back to help Lambert  is so bias  and contradicts the tremendous achievement they made. .   Only Woffy can answer for the way he rode, and the choices he choose.  but to me he was immense, and rode his heart out for the cause.     The rules stank, the point scoring was rubbish, Blame them if you like ,     but for a team who outscored everyone else, a team that did the most team riding of the lot, the team that won the final have nothing to be  questioned about.   Both Woffy and Lambert were brilliant,   to me they were the right full winners..     

It was the organiser who got it wrong.     Team riding was never rewarded during the meeting, yet  in the final coming second  was deemed the winner.....

 PS,,,  Hope you  haven't forgotten the 3 man semi final fiasco .   

I completely agree. Tai and Robert did a magnificent job, and both should be be getting our congratulations. Regardless of my heartache for GB the rules are pathetic. I was left trying to explain to newcomers to the sport who thoroughly enjoyed the tremendous racing how a team who gets the most points, then in a so called final where our rider comes from the back to WIN the race doesn't win overall because second and third is deemed better...Nonsense.

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13 minutes ago, g13webb said:

There are some people on here who will never be pleased.    All this talk of Woffy dropping back to help Lambert  is so bias  and contradicts the tremendous achievement they made. .   Only Woffy can answer for the way he rode, and the choices he choose.  but to me he was immense, and rode his heart out for the cause.     The rules stank, the point scoring was rubbish, Blame them if you like ,     but for a team who outscored everyone else, a team that did the most team riding of the lot, the team that won the final have nothing to be  questioned about.   Both Woffy and Lambert were brilliant,   to me they were the right full winners..     

It was the organiser who got it wrong.     Team riding was never rewarded during the meeting, yet  in the final coming second  was deemed the winner.....

 PS,,,  Hope you  haven't forgotten the 3 man semi final fiasco .   

Why was the semi final a farce, it was run to the rules, are you saying that Poland should have been allowed to carry on with two men in the race until they managed to gate ahead of the Russians?

and I agree that the scores after 42 heats should have been the result, but all seven teams knew the rules when the entered the competition, the time to complain was then not at the end, although I only see fans complaining

 

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