TheReturn Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, topaz325 said: 5-1 to Russia in the final heat.....what happened Tai, nothing I was team riding with Robert. Expand Sarcasm, but had that happened, it would have been the same result in the end, Russia win the SON. The only difference is we would not be asking the question why was he not attempting to team ride or manipulate Robert overtaking Emil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, topaz325 said: 5-1 to Russia in the final heat.....what happened Tai, nothing I was team riding with Robert. Expand As he collects his silver medal ... Just as he did going for and getting the win. Edited June 11, 2018 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, topaz325 said: 5-1 to Russia in the final heat.....what happened Tai, nothing I was team riding with Robert. Expand Thanks for putting forward the argument for team riding, even though you're trying to argue against it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 3:58 PM, topaz325 said: 5-1 to Russia in the final heat.....what happened Tai, nothing I was team riding with Robert. Expand Totally redundant counter argument,because we aren't any worse off......but at least we had a better chance if he tried and failed.Not trying at all,was a no brainer,Even financially Tai wouldn't have been better off winning the heat....... Edited June 11, 2018 by iris123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 3 quotes but I stand by my opinion and respect yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 4:06 PM, topaz325 said: 3 quotes but I stand by my opinion and respect yours. Expand lmao. Do you actually even understand what you are saying? Let me get this straight. Your opinion is quite simply: Woffinden shouldn't have team ridden because we might have lost. Is that it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 4:06 PM, topaz325 said: 3 quotes but I stand by my opinion and respect yours. Expand you're of the opinion that if you're in the final of a world championship you shouldn't at least try everything to win it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 4:06 PM, topaz325 said: 3 quotes but I stand by my opinion and respect yours. Expand Well OK. But the one you just posted about a 5-1 wasn't really giving a contrary 'opinion ' instead it just tended to point out how little we had to lose by having a go. Edited June 11, 2018 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 This argument basically boils down to the below: You have two choices: Option A: You have 1% chance of winning (being generous) Option B: You have 20% chance of winning. We chose Option A. It is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 4:09 PM, Grand Central said: Well OK. But the one you just posted about a 5-1 wasn't really giving a contrary 'opinion ' instead it just tended to point out how little we had to lose by having a go. Expand We didn't have 'little to lose'.. we had 'nothing' to lose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 At least we are debating about fighting for Gold rather than fourth or fifth place. I can see the point many are making, but Tai was in second place early on and Lambert in last place, Tai went for the win maybe hoping Lambert could pass Emil, to me if Tai had slowed he could have been passed by Emil....maybe the SS could ask his thoughts on the last heat. Awaits barrage of counter arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 4:31 PM, topaz325 said: to me if Tai had slowed he could have been passed by Emil. Expand Same result, Silver... at least he tried though Edited June 11, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduds1 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/10/2018 at 10:00 AM, one of clubs said: There is no doubt the two Brits deserved to win the title, but the fact remains that they did not. I will give Tai credit for a great performance in the SON and in his two World titles but to say he is on course to become the greatest ever is way off the mark. That accolade belongs to Peter Collins for his individual, team and pairs world championship honours. Expand He won 1 world title and didn't win either of the other 2 on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 4:31 PM, topaz325 said: At least we are debating about fighting for Gold rather than fourth or fifth place. I can see the point many are making, but Tai was in second place early on and Lambert in last place, Tai went for the win maybe hoping Lambert could pass Emil, to me if Tai had slowed he could have been passed by Emil....maybe the SS could ask his thoughts on the last heat. Awaits barrage of counter arguments. Expand You are still making the argument here for it being a tactical mistake not to try though, don't you see? He could (did) go for the win ... we lost the final. He could have stayed where he was in second ... no matter we would have lost the Final He might have been passed by Emil in the attempt to assist Robert ... no matter we would have lost the Final. He might not have been passed by Emil but helped baulk Emil so that Robert could get past on the last bend ... BIG MATTER We would be World Champions. Edited June 11, 2018 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 4:38 PM, Grand Central said: You are still making the argument here for it being a tactical mistake not to try though, don't you see? He coud (did) go for the win ... we lost the final. He could have stayed where he was in second ... no matter we would have lost the Final He might have been passed by Emil in the attempt to assist Robert ... no matter we would have lost the Final. He might not have been passed by Emil but helped baulk Emil so that Robert could get past on the last bend ... BIG MATTER We would be World Champions. Expand So what you're saying is there was only 1 option to win? Edited June 11, 2018 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 4:41 PM, iainb said: So what you're saying is there was only 1 option to win? Expand After that first lap, yes it was pretty clear that Robert, whilst may have passed Emil (tall order), the only real option was for Tao to help him out by trying to slow Emil, i.e. team riding just like Tai had done for the previous 18 races. But reasons only known to Tai (or the manager), Tai chose not to employ the team riding tactic in that final race. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 4:31 PM, topaz325 said: At least we are debating about fighting for Gold rather than fourth or fifth place. I can see the point many are making, but Tai was in second place early on and Lambert in last place, Tai went for the win maybe hoping Lambert could pass Emil, to me if Tai had slowed he could have been passed by Emil....maybe the SS could ask his thoughts on the last heat. Awaits barrage of counter arguments. Expand You're still not grasping it are you. There isn't a counter argument to what you have said because you haven't got an argument in the first place! Going for the win was irrelevant. It made no difference to the end result whether Lambert did or didn't pass Emil. Let's just suppose Lambert had sneaked past Emil on lap 2.. Tai has cleared off chasing the win.. Then on the last bend Emil goes round the outside and takes back third. Had Tai not been in the lead he could have blocked that outside run. The scenario for the final was simple. Come last, you lose. The win was not important. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 The real question is who messed up (we could sugar coat it), Tai for getting tactics wrong (just needs to learn from it), or Rosco for not making the rules crystal clear. Lets hope the question is asked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 I blame Rosco,he should have put Cook in Final heat,he would have made one of his trademark GP gates led round 1st bend,Tai would have joined him and Team Road to a5/1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 5:11 PM, TheReturn said: The real question is who messed up (we could sugar coat it), Tai for getting tactics wrong (just needs to learn from it), or Rosco for not making the rules crystal clear. Lets hope the question is asked. Expand That's the important question. If it was Tai, he'd done more than enough to warrant a pass. If it was Rossiter not spelling out what was required he should fall on his sword or be pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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