World Championship Pairs

[stewmac]

21 minutes ago, iainb said:

Format: It's the TV world we live in these days, just about every televised sport, with the exception of PL Football, has buckled to TV demands for play offs/winner take all finals.

Let's look at other televised motorsports, of which speedway is one, and see.

Rally: No

F1 : No

Motocross: No

Superbikes: No

Other car motorsports of which are shown on TV: No

In fact, I'd be interested to know if ANY other motorsports follow this ridiculous rule at the end? Can you imagine the uproar if say Lewis Hamilton had won every F1 race all season and was then forced to have a sudden death race-off at the end to see if he really was worthy of being champion? It simply would never happen, as the TV and public would ridicule it and the sport would lose all credibility. 

So, not quite true I'd say...

Edited June 10, 2018 by stewmac

[SPEEDY69]

51 minutes ago, screm said:

Bit difficult to team ride when you are second and fourth then first and fourth, both Woffinden and Lambert rode out of their skin and deserve huge credit.

Yes but that's the point.  It was not finishing last that was crucial, it didn't matter who won the race.  Tai largely left Robert to himself on the inside all meeting and they did deserve to win overall  -some of the other 'teams' were just individuals as usual, such as Doyle and Lindgren.

[Robbie B]

Really proud of the British riders and they do deserve to be champions.

It's nice to have speedway on TV but at the expense of the sports credibility. As far as I'm concerned the team or rider who scores the most points in a meeting deserves the plaudits for their efforts, and not suffer the consequences  of stupid rules such as having an one-off final to determine the victory. If TV requires this sort of method to determine champions. If the SWC does return next season maybe there should be a nominated final heat with one rider from each nation competing with the winner of the race making his team World Champions.

These one-off final heats including in the SGP for me spoil the event and make a mockery of a riders achievement during the nights entertainment. Just let the rider or team scoring the most points become the champion. In the SGP on two occasion a rider has qualified for the semi finals after scoring only 6 points and might go on to win a GP with a grand total of 11 points. Yet in the same meeting another rider might score 20 points and finish second. This scenario might happen in time and it  doesn't make any sense to me.

[Sotonian]

12 minutes ago, adonis said:

what you got with this silly format ,was an undeserving winner , pissed of supporters . and NO media interesr 

?

It was live on TV. How is that no media interest?

[SPEEDY69]

4 minutes ago, Robbie B said:

Really proud of the British riders and they do deserve to be champions.

It's nice to have speedway on TV but at the expense of the sports credibility. As far as I'm concerned the team or rider who scores the most points in a meeting deserves the plaudits for their efforts, and not suffer the consequences  of stupid rules such as having an one-off final to determine the victory. If TV requires this sort of method to determine champions. If the SWC does return next season maybe there should be a nominated final heat with one rider from each nation competing with the winner of the race making his team World Champions.

These one-off final heats including in the SGP for me spoil the event and make a mockery of a riders achievement during the nights entertainment. Just let the rider or team scoring the most points become the champion. In the SGP on two occasion a rider has qualified for the semi finals after scoring only 6 points and might go on to win a GP with a grand total of 11 points. Yet in the same meeting another rider might score 20 points and finish second. This scenario might happen in time and it  doesn't make any sense to me.

Difference with the GP is that all points count towards the world title - unless the FIM in their wisdom decide to change that in the future with the top four points scorers going in a grand final at the end 

[stevebrum]

Thankfully it’s a pleasure to see some posters still giving Tai the credit he deserves but not surprised at the usual Woffy haters trying to discredit him for what was one of the best GB TEAM performances in a long time.

nobody has any idea what the thought process was for the final or what orders were given so it’s just guess work. And as usual Tai is the guilty partner as per usual. How anyone can call Tai selfish after his amazing performances throughout the tournament I find completely baffling, tho not in the slightest bit surprised.

Tai as usual showed what a professional and dedicated approach to his country yet some still happy to bash. Not surprised of course.

thank god for Woffy, on course to be the greatest British rider ever.

[Sotonian]

5 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

thank god for Woffy, on course to be the greatest British rider ever.

There's a strong argument that he already is. I certainly think so.

[IainB]

13 minutes ago, stewmac said:

Let's look at other televised motorsports, of which speedway is one, and see.

Rally: No

F1 : No

Motocross: No

Superbikes: No

Other car motorsports of which are shown on TV: No

In fact, I'd be interested to know if ANY other motorsports follow this ridiculous rule at the end? Can you imagine the uproar if say Lewis Hamilton had won every F1 race all season and was then forced to have a sudden death race-off at the end to see if he really was worthy of being champion? It simply would never happen, as the TV and public would ridicule it and the sport would lose all credibility. 

So, not quite true I'd say...

Didn't F1 toy with the idea of double points in the final race because Red Bull kept winning? All those sports you mention are not really local team sports though are they? Speedway is a little different as they have separate team and individual competitions at national and international level. There's only really top league football that has the financial clout to call the tune to TV companies

[Robbie B]

4 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Difference with the GP is that all points count towards the world title - unless the FIM in their wisdom decide to change that in the future with the top four points scorers going in a grand final at the end 

Even though I know that all points count towards a World Title. I feel that to determine the victory in an SGP meeting the rider coring the most points after 20 heats should be champion unless of course if a run-off is required. Why should a rider who worked hard all night lose the right to be crowned champion of a GP for one bad performance in a final heat decider, so that a lesser scoring rider on the night can become declared the winner. Scrapping the GP semis and final would also make the World Title more closely contested, as the extra points scored by riders in the semis and final wouldn't exist.

[Fromafar]

Did crowds for this Comp.live up to expectations,doubt it IMO .Some decent racing just a silly format.

[Robbie B]

1 minute ago, Fromafar said:

Did crowds for this Comp.live up to expectations,doubt it IMO .Some decent racing just a silly format.

As usual when riders wear their nations body colours they always seem to put in extra effort. The racing was superb in the finals and they were also some excellent races on occasions in the qualifiers.

Shame about the end format though.

Tai and Artem were the stars of the tournament for me. And hopefully we will see the event again.

[topaz325]

Cannot believe all this rubbish written about Tai not team riding in the last heat

[nw42]

13 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Thankfully it’s a pleasure to see some posters still giving Tai the credit he deserves but not surprised at the usual Woffy haters trying to discredit him for what was one of the best GB TEAM performances in a long time.

nobody has any idea what the thought process was for the final or what orders were given so it’s just guess work. And as usual Tai is the guilty partner as per usual. How anyone can call Tai selfish after his amazing performances throughout the tournament I find completely baffling, tho not in the slightest bit surprised.

Tai as usual showed what a professional and dedicated approach to his country yet some still happy to bash. Not surprised of course.

thank god for Woffy, on course to be the greatest British rider ever.

I think you're misreading the mood here, virtually every poster has said how fantastic he has been all week, and he has, he's gone up a few notches in my estimation for his selfless riding all week.  He's been an absolute pleasure to watch, always looking for Lambert and only leaving him when at risk of losing the win, Rob Lambert must have learned so much from him this week, amazing throttle control.

That said, there are plenty of us who, having watched him shepherd Lambert all week, are left wondering why he opted to go after Laguta in the final when the only real chance of taking the title was to get Lambert ahead of Emil, after all he'd been doing that all week where possible.

One or 2 have called him selfish but the vast majority have had nothing but praise for him, it's only natural to wonder why he didn't consider mixing it with Emil.  Of course it's easy for us armchair experts to say he should have done it, doesn't mean we aren't proud of his efforts.

[moomin man 76]

On reflection, the Speedway of Nations has been a mixed week.

The meeting at Teterow was entirely forgettable. In contrast, the meeting at Belle Vue got better as the meeting progressed. A personal highlight was Heat Nineteen, in which Tero Aarnio was able to show his backwheel to both Jason Doyle and Max Fricke. I never expected that sponsoring a rider could be so enjoyable!

A lot of criticism has been made of the decision by the likes of Finland, the United States etc..to not field an under 21 rider, which I feel is a little harsh, when the rules did not make it mandatory and more importantly the organisers were not prepared to pay any travel expenses, as well as poor prize money to any riders wishing to compete. For instance, any Finnish Under 21 rider would have ended up considerably out of pocket sitting in the pits waiting for a ride in the unlikely event that either Tero Aarnio or Timo Lahti were injured.

Unlike others, I wasn't necessarily so surprised or so impressed by Robert Lambert's performance over the course of the week. Good race wins at Belle Vue over the 'weaker' nations interspersed with the odd point against the stronger nations. Once  GB reached the final, we were over-reliant on Tai Woffinden's efforts. It has been a long time since I have seen any rider give such a dominant performance on the world stage. To effectively score 38/39 points over the course of two days was a stunning effort.

The two day format for the final may have allowed the organisers to meet televisual requirements for four events over the course of a week, but it didn't lend itself well to the event. Effectively we ended up with forty two qualifying heats to eliminate four nations. The final two heats were nothing more than a lottery. Poland scraped into the elimination heat finishing nine and ten points respectively behind Russia and GB, but could have gone on to win the meeting with two second-third places. As it was the Russians got through to the final and won the championship after scoring one less point than GB in qualifying. There is far too little gained for obtaining the most points over the course of the first forty two heats. The only gain is the need to avoid one elimination race. Once the final is reached, both pairs start afresh. The final itself showed the flaw in the system; the team that won the final race and obtained the most points over the course of two days finished second. This may the rules in 'speedway' as Nigel Pearson explained to the viewing audience, but it isn't credible when trying to win over a wider audience for the sport.

The speedway public voted with their feet. The attendances for each event were poor, which in itself was revealing of how the speedway viewing public viewed the competition.

[one of clubs]

22 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Thankfully it’s a pleasure to see some posters still giving Tai the credit he deserves but not surprised at the usual Woffy haters trying to discredit him for what was one of the best GB TEAM performances in a long time.

nobody has any idea what the thought process was for the final or what orders were given so it’s just guess work. And as usual Tai is the guilty partner as per usual. How anyone can call Tai selfish after his amazing performances throughout the tournament I find completely baffling, tho not in the slightest bit surprised.

Tai as usual showed what a professional and dedicated approach to his country yet some still happy to bash. Not surprised of course.

thank god for Woffy, on course to be the greatest British rider ever.

There is no doubt the two Brits deserved to win the title, but the fact remains that they did not. I will give Tai credit for a great performance in the SON  and in his two World titles but to say he is on course to become the greatest ever is way off the mark. That accolade belongs to Peter Collins for his individual, team and pairs world championship honours.

[stewmac]

3 minutes ago, moomin man 76 said:

On reflection, the Speedway of Nations has been a mixed week.

The meeting at Teterow was entirely forgettable. In contrast, the meeting at Belle Vue got better as the meeting progressed. A personal highlight was Heat Nineteen, in which Tero Aarnio was able to show his backwheel to both Jason Doyle and Max Fricke. I never expected that sponsoring a rider could be so enjoyable!

A lot of criticism has been made of the decision by the likes of Finland, the United States etc..to not field an under 21 rider, which I feel is a little harsh, when the rules did not make it mandatory and more importantly the organisers were not prepared to pay any travel expenses, as well as poor prize money to any riders wishing to compete. For instance, any Finnish Under 21 rider would have ended up considerably out of pocket sitting in the pits waiting for a ride in the unlikely event that either Tero Aarnio or Timo Lahti were injured.

Unlike others, I wasn't necessarily so surprised or so impressed by Robert Lambert's performance over the course of the week. Good race wins at Belle Vue over the 'weaker' nations interspersed with the odd point against the stronger nations. Once  GB reached the final, we were over-reliant on Tai Woffinden's efforts. It has been a long time since I have seen any rider give such a dominant performance on the world stage. To effectively score 38/39 points over the course of two days was a stunning effort.

The two day format for the final may have allowed the organisers to meet televisual requirements for four events over the course of a week, but it didn't lend itself well to the event. Effectively we ended up with forty two qualifying heats to eliminate four nations. The final two heats were nothing more than a lottery. Poland scraped into the elimination heat finishing nine and ten points respectively behind Russia and GB, but could have gone on to win the meeting with two second-third places. As it was the Russians got through to the final and won the championship after scoring one less point than GB in qualifying. There is far too little gained for obtaining the most points over the course of the first forty two heats. The only gain is the need to avoid one elimination race. Once the final is reached, both pairs start afresh. The final itself showed the flaw in the system; the team that won the final race and obtained the most points over the course of two days finished second. This may the rules in 'speedway' as Nigel Pearson explained to the viewing audience, but it isn't credible when trying to win over a wider audience for the sport.

The speedway public voted with their feet. The attendances for each event were poor, which in itself was revealing of how the speedway viewing public viewed the competition.

Absolutely spot on.

[Big Al]

1 hour ago, Robbie B said:

Really proud of the British riders and they do deserve to be champions.

It's nice to have speedway on TV but at the expense of the sports credibility. As far as I'm concerned the team or rider who scores the most points in a meeting deserves the plaudits for their efforts, and not suffer the consequences  of stupid rules such as having an one-off final to determine the victory. If TV requires this sort of method to determine champions. If the SWC does return next season maybe there should be a nominated final heat with one rider from each nation competing with the winner of the race making his team World Champions.

These one-off final heats including in the SGP for me spoil the event and make a mockery of a riders achievement during the nights entertainment. Just let the rider or team scoring the most points become the champion. In the SGP on two occasion a rider has qualified for the semi finals after scoring only 6 points and might go on to win a GP with a grand total of 11 points. Yet in the same meeting another rider might score 20 points and finish second. This scenario might happen in time and it  doesn't make any sense to me.

It works in GP because the method is the accumulation of points throughout the season. Now, if the overall GP winner were to be decided by a single race-off after the end of the final GP of the season, between the four highest agrregate points scorers from the whole season, that would probably be pushing it a bit too far (can you imagine....but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility!!).

[The Little Un]

There will be very few fans who will not be questioning the tactics in the final race-off and that is natural. There will also be many fans who watched that race and felt that the tactics were the only option. I never watched the meeting but like so many I would like to know what the riders felt about the race-off race. I would rather that we lost the race-off race 7-2 than to lose it 5-4. The riders knew the scoring system in use 3-2-1 in all heats and 4-3-2 in all race-off races. That is another thing however that the organisers should be asked about: Why use different scoring systems? Why did they not use the 4-3-2 system all through the competition; or why did they not use the 3-2-1 system all through the competition.

The organisers have made a farce of an event that should have been a highlight of the year. Had the result after 42 heats stood as the final result it would have achieved the rightful result. If anybody thinks I am only saying that because we were cheated out of the winners trophy; those who know me know that I think that race-off races in all competitions are a farce and should be stopped, including in the GP series and all our domestic competitions. 

[The Little Un]

15 minutes ago, Big Al said:

It works in GP because the method is the accumulation of points throughout the season. Now, if the overall GP winner were to be decided by a single race-off after the end of the final GP of the season, between the four highest agrregate points scorers from the whole season, that would probably be pushing it a bit too far (can you imagine....but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility!!).

Race-off races should be banned from every speedway meeting except when two teams or riders are tied.

[Big Al]

The final was contested between the two best nations produced by four days competition and goodness knows how many heats.

You can therefore presume that all four riders taking part were of a sufficiently high calibre to look after themselves and not require to be nursemaided.

Woffinden was effectively giving a message, to Lambert and possibly Speedway GB also. He was saying

"you shouldn't need to be over reliant on me now - I've done more than my fair share of points scoring and nursemaiding, time for you to stand on your own feet and prove your worth."