World Championship Pairs

[waytogo28]

So the winning trio will be hailed as World Pairs Champions 2018 or Speedway of Nations 2018 Champions? If the former, does the "reserve" get a medal saying World Pairs Team Reserve 2018?

[BWitcher]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

 

Surely Doyle is completely the right example to use, he was nothing more than a second string until he got serious about things

 

Of course he is, to prove the point that fitness is an important component.

However, The Dean Machine was citing Doyle as an example to prove his argument that it doesn't work and that was who I was replying too

[TheReturn]

2 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

So the winning trio will be hailed as World Pairs Champions 2018 or Speedway of Nations 2018 Champions? If the former, does the "reserve" get a medal saying World Pairs Team Reserve 2018?

Dunno, but I think in football a player has to have played a minimum number of games doesn't he? Still, as Pearson always tesll us, every point is vital, so maybe if the reserve scores just one point in any round he's eligible for a medal.

 

[TheReturn]

14 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Tbh I think we have all got a bit obsessed with 'team riding'.

We never usually go on about this so much with league racing as we have been doing here.

I would want a British win above everything else. A 4-2 in every race, right though to the final,  with Tai winning by a mile and Lambert scrabbling a third place ... That would would do fine. 

If a bit of team work brought that about, fair enough, but it is the result that matters  not marvelling at 'synchronised speedway'.

 

Team riding makes points.... the Poles may be getting 5-1 through the card, so we need Tai to try his best to team ride his partner through from third to second where possible.  So team riding is more than synchronised speedway, it could and should = points. 

[IainB]

1 minute ago, TheReturn said:

tesll us

 

?

You need replacing!

[TheReturn]

Just now, iainb said:

?

You need replacing!

typo... 'tells', shouldn't be too hard to work out. 

[IainB]

1 minute ago, TheReturn said:

typo... 'tells', shouldn't be too hard to work out. 

Well done for correcting yourself... just like Pearson did

[PHILIPRISING]

21 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

So the winning trio will be hailed as World Pairs Champions 2018 or Speedway of Nations 2018 Champions? If the former, does the "reserve" get a medal saying World Pairs Team Reserve 2018?

TWO out of three ride as a PAIR in each race... I believe subs get a medal in FA Cup Finals even if they don't get on the pitch

Edited June 8, 2018 by PHILIPRISING

[Grand Central]

42 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

 

Team riding makes points.... the Poles may be getting 5-1 through the card, so we need Tai to try his best to team ride his partner through from third to second where possible.  So team riding is more than synchronised speedway, it could and should = points. 

You are right of course. Nothing could beat the poles if they are on that form.

But it still is technically true that GB  getting 4-2s right through to final would still be a winner. Fantasy land i know.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Grand Central

[PHILIPRISING]

30 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

You are right of course. Nothing could beat the poles if they are on that form.

But it still is technically true that GB  getting 4-2s right through to final would still be a winner. Fantasy land i know.

NOT necessarily. Woffinden is the only double World Champion there, Wroclaw is his home track, could go through the card. Lambert can definitely pick up some points. Janowski and Dudek can blow hot and cold during the same meeting, Sweden could be the favourites if (that word) Lindback is at his best, like the look of Russia but Laguta needs to make starts and Emil will probably get the worst gates as he did in Teterow. It is very open. And, of course, two meetings in 24 hours will put a strain. on both riders and machinery. Let's hope it is a humdinger tonight so that we can look forward to tomorrow as well.

[martinmauger]

"THE Jury is still out of a number of issues with the SON. Firstly, the title of the competition is a nonsense. It tells the greater public nothing, especially from a media point-of-view. It is a World Championship and should include the word world."  S'what I've said alll along, no-one (non-speedway folk) I've spoken to about the SON, and I tend to speak about speedway a lot (!) had any idea what it meant until I told them.  Most then said "why not call it World Pairs then?".  I said that too.  The dust will need to settle before more permanent plans are made, hope the return to SWC myself, so what if the Poles kept winning for fun, the Danes did before and England / GB (albeit featuring Aussies & Kiwis!) did before that.  Too bad if you are not good enough to qualify with and race the 'big boys'; it's called competition for a reason, to find the best.  Onto tomorrow & tonite then: so Rosco is gving Woffy Cookie & Lambert a run in the practice to see who is going the best to finalise his plans for the event.  Hope they all go well and GB can give the rest a run for their money if not get a medal position if not win the thing why not, innit to winnit.  You never know, though mostly we do....

[Shockster]

Heats 22 & 23 could be carnage tomorrow unless a pair gate on a 5-1.  Basically in those 2 races it's irrelevant who wins the race. The only thing that matters is not to be last, nothing else matters.   It stands to reason then, that if you gate and your mate is not with you, you have to slow the race down. It's totally insignificant if you're passed by an opponent as long as you're not passed by both.  I can see this going badly wrong and it's dangerous.  Agree earlier in the thread about Zagar slowing up.  It caused a problem, but you can't blame Zagar as he was "team riding".

This is more the reason why the champions should be the winner after heat 21.  Understand totally about TV etc and finals but this doesn't come into play for normal GP's.

 

[TheReturn]

6 minutes ago, Shockster said:

Heats 22 & 23 could be carnage tomorrow unless a pair gate on a 5-1.  Basically in those 2 races it's irrelevant who wins the race. The only thing that matters is not to be last, nothing else matters.   It stands to reason then, that if you gate and your mate is not with you, you have to slow the race down. It's totally insignificant if you're passed by an opponent as long as you're not passed by both.  I can see this going badly wrong and it's dangerous.  Agree earlier in the thread about Zagar slowing up.  It caused a problem, but you can't blame Zagar as he was "team riding".

Not really, it just needs a STRONG referee to warn the riders beforehand that any dangerous riding will see them excluded. We then need a referee capable of kicking out any rider, from the World Champion to the home riders if it's deemed they're riding dangerous (not that I think they need to, they're that good).

Edited June 8, 2018 by TheReturn

[Shockster]

1 minute ago, TheReturn said:

Not really, it just needs a STRONG referee to warn the riders beforehand that any dangerous riding will see them excluded. We then need a referee capable of kicking out the home riders if it's deemed they're riding dangerous (not that I think they need to, they're that good).

Don't think it will happen.  There'll be uproar if someone gets kicked out at the end and even if the ref does exclude a rider then the danger has already happened.

[TheReturn]

Just now, Shockster said:

Don't think it will happen.  There'll be uproar if someone gets kicked out at the end and even if the ref does exclude a rider then the danger has already happened.

Well you may be right. But if the referee does their job prior to the meeting to make it abundantly clear what will happen if deliberate slowing causes accidents or riding other riders wide happens then there really would be no excuse by riders to do that. 

[Shockster]

1 minute ago, TheReturn said:

Well you may be right. But if the referee does their job prior to the meeting to make it abundantly clear what will happen if deliberate slowing causes accidents or riding other riders wide happens then there really would be no excuse by riders to do that. 

In principal you're correct, but just can't see it. 

If a rider gets excluded for dangerous riding then they were probably going out anyway if they were trying to slow up the race to help the guy at the back.  They may as well risk it as it's really a no lose gamble.  If the result was after 21 heats, we wouldn't be having the debate.

[iris123]

5 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE Jury is still out of a number of issues with the SON. Firstly, the title of the competition is a nonsense. It tells the greater public nothing, especially from a media point-of-view. It is a World Championship and should include the word world. 

The choice of venue for the opening round was extremely poor, although do not know what if any alternatives there were. Poor track, no facilities, came across poorly on TV, a largely German crew that had never covered speedway before, many comms issues on the day.

Two run-off heats are un-necessary. One would suffice (3rd v 4th) especially as it is possible, as happened in Teterow, that one nation (Slovenia) had three races on the trot.

Walking around the pits at BV on Tuesday afternoon it was nice to see so many nations represented. However, there were too many non-competitive races. The idea that each country should have an Under-21 reserve is fine in theory but not in practice. Why not simply have three-man squads, to be used at the discretion of the team manager. It would still be a pair in each race and just as likely if not more to produce team riding.

With the final still to come, many things (such as a two-day final, the scoring system particularly for the Final) have yet to come under scrutiny. What if the championship is decided by a rider getting an exclusion or an engine failure. Plusses and minuses, as in all new ventures.

What we already know is that much depends on the actual track on which these riders are expected to perform to the best of their ability. The NSS fits the bill perfectly. As Antonio Lindback remarked it is fun to race on and if the riders are enjoying whet they are doing the paying public will too.

 

Lets face it most of the problems were mentioned on here long ago.We had a decent comp that was replaced.We have 6 or 7 relatively strong countries,there is no getting away from it.Whatever you try the weak countries will still be weak.Sure I said that many countries won’t have a decent U21 rider and if you scrap that it still means many countries won’t have 3 riders on a par with the top countries.

Typical speedway trying to solve one problem and walk straight into the next.Speedway just doesn’t have the strength in depth of football and adding more countries into the equation will only show the gap up more than before

[TheReturn]

3 minutes ago, iris123 said:

We had a decent comp that was replaced.

Not sure it was decent, I never liked the individual aspect of the racing for a team event. I do like the idea of seeing which teams are real 'teams' on and off the track. Which riders look for each other.

I like the pairs competition, but as Philip remarks, if it continues next season there are things we can do to improve it.

Could the under 21 rider be made under 25?  

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Shockster said:

Heats 22 & 23 could be carnage tomorrow unless a pair gate on a 5-1.  Basically in those 2 races it's irrelevant who wins the race. The only thing that matters is not to be last, nothing else matters.   It stands to reason then, that if you gate and your mate is not with you, you have to slow the race down. It's totally insignificant if you're passed by an opponent as long as you're not passed by both.  I can see this going badly wrong and it's dangerous.  Agree earlier in the thread about Zagar slowing up.  It caused a problem, but you can't blame Zagar as he was "team riding".

This is more the reason why the champions should be the winner after heat 21.  Understand totally about TV etc and finals but this doesn't come into play for normal GP's.

 

It's not been dangerous in 70 years of speedway prior.

Many a time a team has needed a 3-3 to win a meeting, or a championship..

[racers and royals]

Lovely afternoon in Wroclaw.