SCB Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 “The rule book is too complicated.” And “it’s a joke that rules are broken all the time” Followed up with, ”Why can’t Lakeside and Edinburgh break the rules? This is unfair, the BSPA are killing the sport!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Absolutely spot on. Its amazing how many people cry foul..until it's their teams favour... Its not just the so called sport that's a joke...or those that run it...its a fair sized chunk of its fans that are a joke as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, SCB said: “The rule book is too complicated.” And “it’s a joke that rules are broken all the time” Followed up with, ”Why can’t Lakeside and Edinburgh break the rules? This is unfair, the BSPA are killing the sport!” The rule book has often been questionable and full of loopholes which the more astute Team Managers (the late Ian Thomas take a bow) been able to manipulate to their advantage. Edited February 1, 2018 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Obviously different when it's your own team In Lakeside's case though they should have been told immediately that their reserves averages were incorrect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmuncie Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Which rule were Edinburgh seeking to break? As per the rule book we applied for a discretionary approval for a visa for Becker. That was turned down (as is the discretion) however all Edinburgh are looking for is an answer and clarity as to why? The reason of to go along with UKVI rules has been blown out of the water as they confirmed to Edinburgh they were happy that Becker met their criteria. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 As an aside Manzares has been granted a new visa on the basis of his 4th place Accepting that Becker MAY have finished 3rd would push Manzares down to 5th in the notional standings and not qualifying for a visa To grant Becker may then lead to having to rescind the already granted Manzares visa to still be within the guidelines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 So the fans say they want transparency, they want rules kept to, they want riders to stop taking the p. So buster sorted out Chris holder and got slated, they sorted out holder/rathbone and got slated, they uphold the over 6 rule and get slated, they uphold the visa rules and get slated. What do some of you want? You have to start somewhere, and painful as it is for some clubs, I am all for this making rules and sticking to them. Let's move forward with this 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Absolutely. Knowing Buster he won't care that he's getting slated, water off a ducks back. You are never going to please everybody but at least they are starting to be consistent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 18 hours ago, SCB said: “The rule book is too complicated.” And “it’s a joke that rules are broken all the time” Followed up with, ”Why can’t Lakeside and Edinburgh break the rules? This is unfair, the BSPA are killing the sport!” Edinburgh weren't breaking the rules. They followed the rules to the letter. The BSPA have broken their own rules with their reply . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, gmuncie said: The reason of to go along with UKVI rules has been blown out of the water as they confirmed to Edinburgh they were happy that Becker met their criteria. Were they though? A telephone call which concludes that Becker's case "seemed to" meet the criteria bears as much weight as the infamous Rathbone-Godfrey conversation if no formal application was made. 22 minutes ago, BWitcher said: The BSPA have broken their own rules with their reply . How? The extract from the Sponsored Migrants Policy below shows that Becker fails the 1st of the bullet pointed conditions. The BSPA will consider applications for discretionary endorsements for riders who do not meet the above requirements on an individual discretionary basis. Decisions will be made by the BSPA Management Committee who will consider written applications from the club and/or rider concerned. The Management Committee will give written reasons for their decision. Factors to be taken into account when making a discretionary decision will be: whether the riders record in Speedway has been at the highest level and they will contribute significantly to the development of the sport whether exceptional factors prevented the rider from meeting the aforementioned endorsement requirements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 36 minutes ago, Alan_Jones said: Were they though? A telephone call which concludes that Becker's case "seemed to" meet the criteria bears as much weight as the infamous Rathbone-Godfrey conversation if no formal application was made. How? The extract from the Sponsored Migrants Policy below shows that Becker fails the 1st of the bullet pointed conditions. The BSPA will consider applications for discretionary endorsements for riders who do not meet the above requirements on an individual discretionary basis. Decisions will be made by the BSPA Management Committee who will consider written applications from the club and/or rider concerned. The Management Committee will give written reasons for their decision. Factors to be taken into account when making a discretionary decision will be: whether the riders record in Speedway has been at the highest level and they will contribute significantly to the development of the sport whether exceptional factors prevented the rider from meeting the aforementioned endorsement requirements Then the BSPA should clearly state 'how' it has failed. They haven't done so. Those two bullet points are not conditions, they are 'factors' to be taken into consideration. Now should the BSPA believe the first of those bullet points is a factor that they feel Becker doesn't meet sufficiently for them not to give the discretionary endorsement then they should present to the club/rider why they feel that to be the case. If they had done that, case closed. Perhaps some may not have agreed with it but the correct procedure would have been followed. They haven't done that, that is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Then the BSPA should clearly state 'how' it has failed. They haven't done so. Yes they have. Secondly, the application by Edinburgh to use American rider Luke Becker has been rejected. This is based on criteria set down by UKVI and not the British Speedway Promoters’ Association and, as such, the management committee had little choice but to follow the correct procedure. This also applies to Australian Ryan Douglas who is keen to race in the UK and clubs have registered their interest in signing him – but, like Becker, he doesn’t qualify for a visa. These procedures were clarified and implemented forcibly in recent years when British Speedway ran a serious risk of losing the use of all visa riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) It hasn't failed on criteria set down by the UKVI. Do try and keep up. A discretionary endorsement is precisely FOR those who don't meet the criteria set down by the UKVI. It's not rocket science. All the BSPA had to do was give their reasons why they don't feel a discretionary endorsement is valid. Simple. If the BSPA wishes to operate a hard and fast ruling in regards to the permits, which is fair enough, then remove the appeal system. Edited February 1, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 kind of related - someone just posted on fb that there are more than double the number of riders unemployed than doubling up. something not right there - perhaps this informs attitudes to work permits. i guess a fair percentage of members voted for brexit - well nows our chance to make sure those riders are employed before any visas are issued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 ''These procedures were clarified and implemented forcibly in recent years when British Speedway ran a serious risk of losing the use of all visa riders'' That last paragraph is the BSPA reasoning for declining the appeal. They obviously feel that if they did apply discrection now it could put the whole system at risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: They obviously feel that if they did apply discrection now it could put the whole system at risk So there is no discretion? Perhaps that's what the official guidelines should say then? I've no axe to grind either way, I'm a Bees fan . But this is February and clubs are still debating various rules with the authorities which directly affect team building. That can't be right, surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, False dawn said: So there is no discretion? Perhaps that's what the official guidelines should say then? I've no axe to grind either way, I'm a Bees fan . But this is February and clubs are still debating various rules with the authorities which directly affect team building. That can't be right, surely? Id say that means they feel discretion should remain part of the regs but that now is not the right time to apply it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: now is not the right time to apply it Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Id say that means they feel discretion should remain part of the regs but that now is not the right time to apply it Which is entirely the problem! In other words, it depends who is asking, which is a big factor in the sport being in the mess it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, BWitcher said: Which is entirely the problem! In other words, it depends who is asking, which is a big factor in the sport being in the mess it is. I see you point and no doubt that has been behind more than a few decisions However I would hope that in this case that not the right time means because it is now rather than because it is Edinburgh asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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