Is the league stronger in 2018?

[Chris116]

Having watched speedway all my life and over the past 20 years or so seen racing at all three levels that have run under different names to keep eveyone guessing what the names mean I have come to the conclusion that good speedway only needs teams that are matched evenly.

Some of the worst racing I have seen has been in the top league (I have also seen some magic meetings in the top league) and some of the most exciting meetings have been in the third division. Yes, the riders in the top league are faster, more skillful and make fewer mistakes. Sometimes that makes for excellent racing but it can also make for matches where no one overtakes anyone after the first half lap of each race. In the third league the riders are slower and make mistakes which means that you can have overtaking on every lap or they can get strung out with the crowd yawning! 

Balanced teams where all the riders are able to beat all the others will give exciting racing. A team with two 8+ riders, three 5 to 7 point riders and two reserves of 4 and 3.5 would be inside the 42.5 but most races would end up being two match races. If the top riders have a lower average that leaves room for higher scoring reserves and so makes each race more likely to be close. 

The big problem with all of this is that at the end of the season some of the 6 and 7 point riders will have gone up to being 8.5 point riders and under current rules they could be lost to British racing which will then bring even more upset during the following winter. Do I have any answers? Probably not but I do have a few ideas which I think might help the sport in this country.

1) Premiership to allow two 8+ riders in a team. Championship to allow one 8+ rider in a team. This makes the two leagues different instead of the situation we have where the standard is nearly the same.

2) Riders who have not ridden in this country for the previous twelve months to have the averages of the countries where they have raced added up for the previous season that they raced in this country and for the last season compared. You then find the multiplier and use this on their last British average to find their new British average. For example a rider had a 6 point average in 2014 in British racing. In 2014 his Polish and Swedish averages added up and then divided by 2 comes to 5.8 and in 2017 his Polish, Swedish and Danish averages added up and then divided by 3 came to 6.5 which produces a multiplier of 1.12068966 and applying that to his old British average gives him a starting average of 6.72.

3) At all meetings the visiting team should be allowed a 15 minute practice session before the meeting. How often do you find that the away team only start to compete in the second half of the meeting. Allowing them to get their set up right will give closer racing from the start of the meeting. I realise that some home track only fans only want to see their team win all their home meetings but for me I want to see a close meeting with close racing. I enjoy being on the losing side of a 44-46 meeting than on the winning side of a 60-30 meeting.

Let's hope we have lots of close racing and close scores, enjoy your racing.

Chris

[BWitcher]

18 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

No that wasn't the point I was making, on paper all teams are of the same strength according to averages at the start of the season, but the reality is quite different so you can't go on averages alone. I havent actually said whether i think the league is stronger or weaker either. However Wolves are definately weaker than last year as we have lost Freddie and Mark Riss and gained Cameron Heeps and Ash Morris

Ah apologies, misread it amongst the nonsense being spouted about the weaker league.

Wolves are weaker, that's a natural thing when a team is successful, however it's not as simple as saying we've lost and replaced those riders.

Thorssell and Howarth are both much better riders this year than last. You could say Greaves is better too.

Also, let's not forget, we didn't start 2017 with Riss, or indeed Schlein.

So the real comparison is Lindgren, Skornicki and Clegg out. Rory Schein, Cameron Heeps and Ashley Morris in. Still weaker, but no much as the original comparison.

Edited January 26, 2018 by BWitcher

[Aces51]

1 hour ago, stevebrum said:

Bjerre and Lindgren out,  Vaculik in. Yet some will argue it's stronger!!!

Vaculik and Iversen in, so potentially not much in it if you want to use that as the criteria. 

A team building limit of 42.50 against the team average of 42 at the end of last season so, again, not much in it taking account of some assessed averages and some teams not building right up to the 42.50.

[BWitcher]

2 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

Vaculik and Iversen in, so potentially not much in it if you want to use that as the criteria. 

A team building limit of 42.50 against the team average of 42 at the end of last season so, again, not much in it taking account of some assessed averages and some teams not building right up to the 42.50.

It's a good point when you refer to the 'end of last season'. The league is certainly stronger than at the start of last season, not quite so much compared to the end of last year.

[Woz01]

13 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It's a good point when you refer to the 'end of last season'. The league is certainly stronger than at the start of last season, not quite so much compared to the end of last year.

That's a natural progression during a season, most teams usually are stronger at the end as most are scrambling for a top 4 spot. Fair comparison is the start of last season and for me this season is stronger.

[Daniel Smith]

Much of a muchness.

The team strengths as a whole are more even throughout than last season.

A couple of big boys have gone but at the same time NL standard riders have also gone from the reserves.

 

Edit: Scrap all that, it's a load of dogs dangling ball sacks 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Daniel Smith

[BWitcher]

3 hours ago, Woz01 said:

That's a natural progression during a season, most teams usually are stronger at the end as most are scrambling for a top 4 spot. Fair comparison is the start of last season and for me this season is stronger.

That's my view as well.

Actually, not a view, it just is!

[INCOGNITO]

16 riders start 2018 that were not in a team last year and they have averages that are around 72 points and six are on 4.00 or lower compared to the 16 riders that have not returned averaging 86 points and only two are under 4.00

 

That resembles being weaker but stats can be used either way as they can say this year there will be four GP riders here compared to three last season

 

last year there was a more mixed strength of teams where as this year looks more balanced with Somerset and Kings Lynn looking weakest but the other six all have line ups that could be contenders as they are at present. 

[stevebrum]

5 hours ago, Aces51 said:

Vaculik and Iversen in, so potentially not much in it if you want to use that as the criteria. 

A team building limit of 42.50 against the team average of 42 at the end of last season so, again, not much in it taking account of some assessed averages and some teams not building right up to the 42.50.

Apologies,  I forgot to include Iversen so yes indeed 2 in and 2 out. The nonsense of the 50 point limit and fake averages have messed up the comparisons too. 

It's clear last season's starting limit of 50 is higher than the start of this however,  despite in reality the ridiculous reassessed averages for some have clouded the issue somewhat.  It isn't as cut as dry as some like to bore on about.

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, INCOGNITO said:

16 riders start 2018 that were not in a team last year and they have averages that are around 72 points and six are on 4.00 or lower compared to the 16 riders that have not returned averaging 86 points and only two are under 4.00

 

That resembles being weaker but stats can be used either way as they can say this year there will be four GP riders here compared to three last season

 

last year there was a more mixed strength of teams where as this year looks more balanced with Somerset and Kings Lynn looking weakest but the other six all have line ups that could be contenders as they are at present. 

You are comparing the end of last season I assume? That's a false comparison if so.

 

[INCOGNITO]

On 26 January 2018 at 7:47 PM, BWitcher said:

You are comparing the end of last season I assume? That's a false comparison if so.

 

 

Pas the post states, Stats can be looked at in different ways and last year the teams started stronger than in 2016 and you could say that it will be just as strong in 2018 however you do really need to compare how teams finish one year to how they start the following year.

 

Has the league got stronger or weaker this season ? 

 

I would say say it's got slightly weaker which shows with the amount of points not returning and new riders coming in and the amount of low averages starting this season compared to those that finished last season. However you have to include Dan Bewley for example returning this year on a near five average but started last season on a 2.00 average.so some riders improved making the gap smaller in comparison. 

 

Overall its its not a case of is the league stronger or not, it's is the sport any more interesting to current fans or attracting new fans and in that catergory it has to be down as its not however tracks are increasing admission prices because they are losing out on TV deals and trying to get the fans to match the difference. 

 

Chasing your our loses is not something most successful businesses do in trying to increase sales and would rather lower prices to increase sales

[Call me wolfie]

20 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

 

Pas the post states, Stats can be looked at in different ways and last year the teams started stronger than in 2016 and you could say that it will be just as strong in 2018 however you do really need to compare how teams finish one year to how they start the following year.

 

Has the league got stronger or weaker this season ? 

 

I would say say it's got slightly weaker which shows with the amount of points not returning and new riders coming in and the amount of low averages starting this season compared to those that finished last season. However you have to include Dan Bewley for example returning this year on a near five average but started last season on a 2.00 average.so some riders improved making the gap smaller in comparison. 

 

Overall its its not a case of is the league stronger or not, it's is the sport any more interesting to current fans or attracting new fans and in that catergory it has to be down as its not however tracks are increasing admission prices because they are losing out on TV deals and trying to get the fans to match the difference. 

 

Chasing your our loses is not something most successful businesses do in trying to increase sales and would rather lower prices to increase sales

Not all tracks have increased their prices, Wolves remains at £18

[DWP]

On 26/01/2018 at 1:56 PM, Chris116 said:

Having watched speedway all my life and over the past 20 years or so seen racing at all three levels that have run under different names to keep eveyone guessing what the names mean I have come to the conclusion that good speedway only needs teams that are matched evenly.

Some of the worst racing I have seen has been in the top league (I have also seen some magic meetings in the top league) and some of the most exciting meetings have been in the third division. Yes, the riders in the top league are faster, more skillful and make fewer mistakes. Sometimes that makes for excellent racing but it can also make for matches where no one overtakes anyone after the first half lap of each race. In the third league the riders are slower and make mistakes which means that you can have overtaking on every lap or they can get strung out with the crowd yawning! 

Balanced teams where all the riders are able to beat all the others will give exciting racing. A team with two 8+ riders, three 5 to 7 point riders and two reserves of 4 and 3.5 would be inside the 42.5 but most races would end up being two match races. If the top riders have a lower average that leaves room for higher scoring reserves and so makes each race more likely to be close. 

The big problem with all of this is that at the end of the season some of the 6 and 7 point riders will have gone up to being 8.5 point riders and under current rules they could be lost to British racing which will then bring even more upset during the following winter. Do I have any answers? Probably not but I do have a few ideas which I think might help the sport in this country.

1) Premiership to allow two 8+ riders in a team. Championship to allow one 8+ rider in a team. This makes the two leagues different instead of the situation we have where the standard is nearly the same.

2) Riders who have not ridden in this country for the previous twelve months to have the averages of the countries where they have raced added up for the previous season that they raced in this country and for the last season compared. You then find the multiplier and use this on their last British average to find their new British average. For example a rider had a 6 point average in 2014 in British racing. In 2014 his Polish and Swedish averages added up and then divided by 2 comes to 5.8 and in 2017 his Polish, Swedish and Danish averages added up and then divided by 3 came to 6.5 which produces a multiplier of 1.12068966 and applying that to his old British average gives him a starting average of 6.72.

3) At all meetings the visiting team should be allowed a 15 minute practice session before the meeting. How often do you find that the away team only start to compete in the second half of the meeting. Allowing them to get their set up right will give closer racing from the start of the meeting. I realise that some home track only fans only want to see their team win all their home meetings but for me I want to see a close meeting with close racing. I enjoy being on the losing side of a 44-46 meeting than on the winning side of a 60-30 meeting.

Let's hope we have lots of close racing and close scores, enjoy your racing.

Chris

Point 3 - do as they do in Poland. 15/30mins before the schedule start time and rider presentation. Each team coach selects 2 of his riders to practice. Home team 2 riders have 1minute practice, return to pits and away team selected riders have their 1minute. All 4 riders then change to their 2nd bike and this is repeated with riders having another 1minute each.

Another Polish Practice, I’d like to see also is one fuel point. Home team supply the methanol and Mechanics takes their bike to be filled before their riders next race. Riders are not allowed their own methanol in the pits. 

[Trotter65]

It's a very unappetising league and product this year...doesn't really make me want to make the effort to go every week I'm afraid

[waytogo28]

On 1/26/2018 at 1:56 PM, Chris116 said:

3) At all meetings the visiting team should be allowed a 15 minute practice session before the meeting. How often do you find that the away team only start to compete in the second half of the meeting. Allowing them to get their set up right will give closer racing from the start of the meeting. I realise that some home track only fans only want to see their team win all their home meetings but for me I want to see a close meeting with close racing. I enjoy being on the losing side of a 44-46 meeting than on the winning side of a 60-30 meeting.

Let's hope we have lots of close racing and close scores, enjoy your racing.

Chris

An excellent idea that won't be taken up anytime soon - sadly. Yes I hope we will have lots of close racing with close scores but I am not holding my breath for hope of the same, at the one track where I can watch speedway. When they do write the book on the demise of UK speedway, such ideas as the practice sessions as above will be held up as something that was never tried but might have turned things round..

[arnieg]

11 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

An excellent idea that won't be taken up anytime soon - sadly. Yes I hope we will have lots of close racing with close scores but I am not holding my breath for hope of the same, at the one track where I can watch speedway. When they do write the book on the demise of UK speedway, such ideas as the practice sessions as above will be held up as something that was never tried but might have turned things round..

 

11 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

....When they do write the book on the demise of UK speedway,....

Something I have mused on doing, even if it is just for the title:

 

"Gibbons Decline and Fall (of British Speedway)"

[Star Lady]

13 hours ago, DWP said:

 

Another Polish Practice, I’d like to see also is one fuel point. Home team supply the methanol and Mechanics takes their bike to be filled before their riders next race. Riders are not allowed their own methanol in the pits. 

I'd be interested to know why?

not sure if you meant it this way but the implication is some riders might be less than honest.

[False dawn]

2 hours ago, arnieg said:

"Gibbons Decline and Fall (of British Speedway)"

Not a very complimentary description of the BSPA 

[DWP]

6 hours ago, Star Lady said:

I'd be interested to know why?

not sure if you meant it this way but the implication is some riders might be less than honest.

No was not implying that. But this system prevents any rider who may think they can bend any fuel rules. 

[Star Lady]

Thanks for the clarification