OAP concessions, why?

[B.V 72]

9 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

(quote from above post)If you can't see that old people will die before young people,well .....You're an idiot.)

 

What an idiotic comment.I am 60 now and in my lifetime I have lost 8 friends and family ranging between 14 and 56 the reaper comes when he is ready so do not count your chickens no one ever knows how long they have got.

Edited January 13, 2018 by B.V 72

[blocktread]

Try living on £154 a week like I have to after working for 48 years.Without concessions no speedway for me.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, B.V 72 said:

(quote from above post)If you can't see that old people will die before young people,well .....You're an idiot.)

 

What an idiotic comment.I am 60 now and in my lifetime I have lost 8 friends and family ranging between 14 and 56 the reaper comes when he is ready so do not count your chickens no one ever knows how long they have got.

...I have just lost a working colleague thru' cancer and he was in his early/middle thirties.

[Aces51]

SCB, even taking your view, don't forget that many pensioners paid into the system and paid the full admission price at speedway throughout their working lives and subsidised whatever benefits you think they now receive for those who were pensioners when they were younger. You can argue about statistics as to which group  was relatively better off 10,15 or 20 years ago but the fact is that few, if any of those who are now pensioners begrudged the older generation a few "perks" when they were working. We thought they had worked hard all their lives and deserved a few benefits in their later years.

However, put all that aside. The fact is that many commercial organisations offer discounts to many different sections of the community because they see it as sound commercial sense to do so. Teachers, civil servants, members of certain organisations. people who buy certain brands of products, are all offered discounts ranging from buying insurance, to holidays, to purchasing many different types of goods and for entertainment and leisure activities. There's nothing altruistic in offering pensioners these same discounts. It is done for exactly the same reasons as for any other group, because businesses think it commercially advantageous for them to do it. 

Much as it may grieve you I suspect that as a group we will be offered even more discounts because we shall be even more attractive to businesses as there will be more of us because we are living longer.

[Star Lady]

I agree with SCB on some points but to turn his argument on it's head why should children get in free or at a reduced rate. Presumably their parents chose to have them with all associated costs so why should working childless people subsidise them. 

Dont say they are the future because without the present OAPs on their reduced admission there will be no future 

[wealdstone]

18 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

Yes I have been laughing about it for months!!!

[A ORLOV]

Many organisations offered discounts to OAPs to use the facilities or spend their money during quiet times, ie the pub etc for meals before 7pm on weekdays, or clubs during the daytime.  This then spread to other organisations who thought that by offering a discount they would get more people into their venue who would then spend more money.  Many who are retired do have to watch what they spend and any help from organisations with discounts is probably greatly appreciated by them, but it is difficult to means test them for those that are hard up and those who have an adequate income and those that receive well above the average income.    

[Crump99]

On 12/01/2018 at 5:30 PM, OveFundinFan said:

I wish I was on that £20k a year pension - fact is I am far below it.

If that £20k is some sort of average, it could include those directors who were earning £300k+ and receive pensions of £80k-£100k. Nice if you can get it.

That made me laugh as well. It's like when they quote the average wage, I always think, I wish!! I've worked a long time, and still have years to go, and at the end of it will have a work pension and state pension of some description (was contracted out for part) but both together fall well short of 20k. Certainly not as much as when working so I'll be happy for my concession without having to be means tested at the turnstile to get it.

[Crump99]

12 hours ago, MattK said:

When housing costs are taken into account:

Pensioner incomes 'outstrip those of working families'

Or when you take into accout that it's a think tank:

On 27/12/2017 at 10:49 AM, Humphrey Appleby said:

Think tanks need to self-promote in order to keep getting funding, but half the time they've no idea what's actually happening. 

 

 

[wealdstone]

9 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

Or when you take into accout that it's a think tanks actually thought !! :

 

If think tanks actually thought  they would not come out with the rubbish that they do. 

[brylcream boy]

SCB, when you were in a position to take advantage of a discount, did you refuse or take it.

[waytogo28]

It might be time for a four match boycott from the start of 2018 by all those who qualify for ( and need to take the discount ) some tracks would lose 25 / 30 % ion the crowd,

[woodenspoon]

A lot of the OAPs that go to speedway have also encouraged their son's & grandson's to get interested in speedway, and this is still often the case, so I think they deserve their discount.

Unfortunately in Belle Vue's case, the competition from Man United & Man City is too big a lure when the youngsters get into their teens.  A couple we stood with had a young son, and as he got older he was constantly whingeing to his parents " can't you take me to Man United". After a while we never saw his parents or him at speedway again.

I daresay if my grandson had to choose between Football or speedway, if they clashed or he could not afford both, that football would win out.

[Coventry_Bee]

I am pretty sure at Coventry, They got rid of the concessions and it caused a few people not to go any more. At one stage I am sure they messed about with student discounts as well, I remember it getting messy. 

[topaz325]

Interesting article in this weeks Speedway Star about the future of the sport and the need to attract the younger audience to watch Speedway because if we don’t there will be a predicted black hole of fans in a few years time. The fan base is already dwindling fast with younger people in the 18-30 age bracket not interested in Speedway or very few are.

A very informative piece which also looks at engine development in these environmentally challenging times when vehicles are moving towards greener fuels and electric power and what shape if any Speedway will take?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

3 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

It might be time for a four match boycott from the start of 2018 by all those who qualify for ( and need to take the discount ) some tracks would lose 25 / 30 % ion the crowd,

By that if all those that dont get a discount undertook a similar boycott the crowd would be down 70/75%.....

[waytogo28]

We are not far from that 100% boycott anyway. The end is nigh unless the product is greatly improved and the presentation brought into the 21st century. So you may be right, it doesn't matter very much , who - if anybody gets a discount.

[A ORLOV]

1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

By that if all those that dont get a discount undertook a similar boycott the crowd would be down 70/75%.....

Agree but the clubs cannot afford to lose either group with the dire situation many of them are in.

The worrying point is that very few or none of them know what to do to grow the fan base and attendance. 

[iris123]

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 9:07 AM, Halifaxtiger said:

According to the Office for National Statistics, that's not true.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/financialyearending2017

They say that the median retired household's income is £22,400, that of a non retired household is £29,300 (the equivalent mean is £26,347 and £34,363). That's about 30% lower.

Having said that, the gap in the last 10 years has narrowed significantly. While non retired household incomes have remained the same, retired households have increased by almost 25% .

To me, that means you have a point and don't deserve the abuse thrown in your direction simply for raising this issue. 

Until, however, those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them. 

 

One of the best and as ever from you,fairest posts on the thread.

It is a reasonable topic to hold.It is fair to ask why a certain group in society receive such a benefit across the board.I mean a millionaire pensioner gets in at a reduced price,not only for speedway,whereas someone of say 30 years old who is working in a poorly paid job has to pay full whack.We even get,although I guess it was tongue in check,someone saying kids should also pay.Students also often get reduced prices,but some students are sons and daughters of millionaires and some even millionaires in their own right.The fair way would be to have people pay at the level their bank balance allows,but is impossible to police.

 

You do also point out that some,like your friends think,maybe rightly, that reductions for pensioners are has more to do with recognition of their contribution to society.Maybe that was one of the reasons years ago to do with those who fought for the country etc.But a lot of those benefit scroungers from the 70s are now pensioners,who hardly contributed a thing to the country.If they take their reduction away,as you say,regardless of their wealth,they won't go.Rather like some of these ex-riders,who maybe turned out half a dozen times for a club won't go unless they get in for nowt!!! 

[Baldyman]

From what I've seen its 70 percent oap and 30 the rest...   The oap queue is far far the longest at the entrance