OAP concessions, why?

[SCB]

So why? Because they're certainly not poor. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/11/pensioner-incomes-rise-graduate-starting-salaries-first-time/

[Grachan]

Respect for your elders.

[Grachan]

Actually, all the incomes quoted there are pretty crap if you are looking to go to speedway every week - unless you are living in a house free of charge.

[steve roberts]

32 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Respect for your elders.

...trouble is SCB has a fixation about ageism and raises the issue over and over again. Gets a bit tiresome after awhile.

[Trees]

Bit of a generalisation SCB, there's plenty of pensioners on basic pension and maybe a small personal pension .....

[Gunner85]

Theatres , cinemas , trains , buses ,football games.... all give concessions amongst many others.

there are plenty of pensioners who are very glad of a little financial help

 

[OveFundinFan]

I wish I was on that £20k a year pension - fact is I am far below it.

If that £20k is some sort of average, it could include those directors who were earning £300k+ and receive pensions of £80k-£100k. Nice if you can get it.

[Baldyman]

I work full time...and I would like 20k a year for working...let alone being retired.

[The White Knight]

1 hour ago, SCB said:

So why? Because they're certainly not poor. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/11/pensioner-incomes-rise-graduate-starting-salaries-first-time/

Here you go again SCB. You really must be a very bitter person. You are right when you say that a hell of a lot of Pensioners are well of, some of them very well off. However the obverse is also true. There are also a hell of a lot of Pensioners who are not very well off, are indeed very, very poor. Some can afford Speedway every week, but others will inevitably not be able to, and it seems that you want to make them even worse off. I doubt if there are many very well off Pensioners who attend Speedway that often so you are actually having a go at the poorer ones.

Shame on you!!!

You are either very bitter, very jealous or very selfish or maybe a combination of all three.

Shame on you!!!

[Dave Jones]

 " delusions of grandeur" sums him up nicely.

[YerRopes]

I doubt that there are many rich pensioners that include speedway as an interest..

The OAP concession should remain

[Hawk127]

Whatever the pension payout, many may have contributed to the fund during the working life so will have saved and made financial sacrifices. However in real terms most blacks policies or annuities now offer poor returns compared to a few years back. A £50k pot/fund would get you roughly £2k per annum pension at 65 on a Joint basis. Some will have contributed to the pot possibly through salary sacrifice. This excludes any state pension. Add to the fact that interest rates have been held low meaning that anyone with savings relying on income through interest has lost out in recent years. On the flip side those lucky enough to have mortgages that they can ill afford in normal circumstances have been protected with lending rates that are simply farcical. To harp on about how the younger generation are hard done by everyone needs to consider how long it takes to build up a pot to carry you through retirement. The state cannot support the sick, those who need care etc. Assets are be sold by the elderly simply to pay for care despit3 th3 fact that over the years they have paid NI. To suggest that the pensioners are so well off is written by those you have no idea of the reality and is sensational clap trap. The younger generation need to get their priorities right and start looking thirty or forty years ahead and not the short termism that is so evident in their attitude while whinging that everyone older is better off. Most elderly have worked hard for what they have and those graduates are just starting off on that journey, so they need to plan and stop complaing. No one owes them a living or a right to an inflated standard that so many aspire.

[RobMcCaffery]

SCB's thin veneer of intelligence is once more stripped away by his rancid and repugnant ageism. It's a familiar argument - "I know a pensioner who's well-off so every one of them must be." It's as intellectually and morally bankrupt as "All these foreigners are taking our jobs". I do wonder if he's got a problem with his parents or other elderly relatives, given the sick bitterness and prejudice he continually shows to the elderly.

In another recent thread he came up with what were superficially intelligent comments about the way forward but which were invalidated by his comment "Stop pandering to the old, they'll be dead soon", or words to that effect. I'll leave you to consider for a moment just how repugnant that is. 

Don't be taken in by someone who is obsessed withe speedway rule book and averages. It doesn't make them intelligent, merely fixated. I had to correct him ages ago when he was spouting this regulation and that to point out that he was completely ignoring the key part of the rule book, the supplementary regulations which are issued during a season and regularly amend those rules.,

I remember SCB complaining about the car park at a certain track on the basis that it was damaging his very expensive car. Lovely chap. I'd park mine outside ;-)

If people were singled out for such abuse on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality they would be rightly condemned by most reasonable people in society and in many cases prosecuted. 

So why is ageism allowed?

Speedway may have an age profile that could do with reducing. The SCB's of this world would achieve that by making the sport hostile to the elderly and forcing them out on the basis that the young and 'cool' (i.e. his own perception of himself) are put off by the sight of geriatrics viciously sitting down because they can't stand up for two hours and callously drinking hot drinks from a flask because they know that the stuff on sale at the track is awful quality and overpriced. Shame on them!

It's not the elderly that are the problem, it's the shallow, ignorant outlook of certain people at the other end of the age spectrum.

Still, there's one consolation, given the modern trend to despise the old by the time he gets to be in that age group life's going to be pretty appalling for him.

Yes I have attacked the poster, and I have not one iota of apology for doing this. I've posted some strong views on here over the years but they have all been based on a deep love of and concern for the sport, and not my ego. I had my brief spell in the spotlight and I can tell you I am much, much happier sitting quietly in the shadows now.

When I see SCB's posts I see raw ego. I worked with a few TV technicians like him in the past and you would sometimes get those who developed appalling arrogance through working in the industry. I thought I'd seen the worst.......until now. 

I remember years back Sittingbourne getting their only away Conference League win at Newport. Almost everyone on the BSF were congratulating the then Crusaders on finally getting a win. One kid wasn't though. He went through every decision made in the match, every pass and incident, desperately trying to prove that the Kent side hadn't deserved their win.

Ever since then I've been waiting for SCB to grow up. Seems like I've got a longer to go. Still, I'll probably be dead first, eh?

Rob McCaffery - aged 60 and expecting the basic state pension only, if that when I can finally afford to retire. You see, instead of building up a career I spent too much time with speedway. I'm now partially disabled so have to have a seat at a track even if it's a folding one which SCB so despises. After 46 years of course I don't deserve a small concession on the admission in my advancing old age.....It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport in my final years without having to put up with prejudice from this shallow clown. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCB]

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

[proud panther]

6 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

In one sentence you claim that you don't call people names, & then you call Rob an idiot. Priceless !!!

[Halifaxtiger]

7 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

According to the Office for National Statistics, that's not true.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/financialyearending2017

They say that the median retired household's income is £22,400, that of a non retired household is £29,300 (the equivalent mean is £26,347 and £34,363). That's about 30% lower.

Having said that, the gap in the last 10 years has narrowed significantly. While non retired household incomes have remained the same, retired households have increased by almost 25% .

To me, that means you have a point and don't deserve the abuse thrown in your direction simply for raising this issue. 

Until, however, those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them. 

 

[Grand Central]

The simplest answer to the OP is that OAPs get a discount today, just because they always did in the past.
Going back to a time when very few OAPs attending Speedway would have a private pension and would (then) have been on the poor side.
That is/was the British tradition.

The argument for taking the concession away is a fairly silly one.
The negative impact of removing that 'discount' today would piss off so many that the promoters would be stupid to do so as the attandances would be hit badly.

But then I would have thought SCB was very able to work that out for himself.

So, I assume he just felt like prodding the hornet's nest due to boredom!

Edited January 13, 2018 by Grand Central

[OveFundinFan]

41 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument.

The above was Halifaxtiger quoting SCB.

SCB, it does say "average", that means the figure evens everyone out.

Someone on the National Minimum Rate of £7.50ph will earn £15,600pa. Even the new pension, only recently started to be paid, is approx £8,400pa and that depends on NI contributions. Pensioners before that get much less- and thats what my state pension is....much less. I contributed to a private pension for 23 years which helps me out, many pensioners today do not have private pensions. They will really be struggling.

I think you need to learn what pensioners are actually on rather then rely on some "average"  figure.

If pensioners didnt get "senior citizen" rates I would imagine some businesses would struggle - speedway would probably have folded years ago. 

 

[MattK]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them. 

When housing costs are taken into account:

Pensioner incomes 'outstrip those of working families'

[MattK]

27 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

If pensioners didnt get "senior citizen" rates I would imagine some businesses would struggle - speedway would probably have folded years ago. 

In which case, why not offer the "discount" to all customers?