stevebrum Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: Its true that the sport as a whole cannot afford the top boys BUT there is a handful of clubs who could afford some of them so why not go for one big league (of approx. Championship level) and allow the handful of clubs to also run a 'Super League' set up if they can afford it and reckon they can attract the crowds? The likes of Wolves, Poole, Rye House, Glasgow, Sheffield etc are backed by a combination of successful businesses and sponsorship and could easily operate a top league on a set night and also run a Championship-level team in the bigger one league? It could be the best of both worlds. Exactly. My sentiments echo that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 That sounds a bit like going back to the National League and the Provincial League The NL had the majority of the star riders but there were reducing numbers of clubs, whilst the PL was expanding In the end, they amalgamated and made "one big league" - the British League - and that was a great success Perhaps that's the blueprint for the future! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 Exactly, it is time to amalgamte the Premiership and Championship. It is 1965 all over again for British Speedway. Why worry about some BIG clubs being able to sign BIG stars. That's fine. It's the same in every sport, Football, Rugby etc. There will always be some bigger clubs then others. It is these BIG clubs who attract the spectators when they come to Your track. It is not so important that there are big names in the League, it is much more important that each club has their own riders, and exclusive to them. Only then will the fans get behind their team and their riders again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Midland Red said: That sounds a bit like going back to the National League and the Provincial League The NL had the majority of the star riders but there were reducing numbers of clubs, whilst the PL was expanding In the end, they amalgamated and made "one big league" - the British League - and that was a great success Perhaps that's the blueprint for the future! Difference being the two leagues had different riders. The two leagues now have a lot of the same riders in them. Also, when the two leagues combined intonthe BL, it had the best riders in the world in it. That is not what is being advocated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Its true that the sport as a whole cannot afford the top boys BUT there is a handful of clubs who could afford some of them so why not go for one big league (of approx. Championship level) and allow the handful of clubs to also run a 'Super League' set up if they can afford it and reckon they can attract the crowds? The likes of Wolves, Poole, Rye House, Glasgow, Sheffield etc are backed by a combination of successful businesses and sponsorship and could easily operate a top league on a set night and also run a Championship-level team in the bigger one league? It could be the best of both worlds. Reserve teams are not popular.. in any sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 6, 2018 Report Share Posted January 6, 2018 31 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Reserve teams are not popular.. in any sport. Exactly. Plus, the teams in this 'Super League' would struggle to get support for their championship strength sides. So they would stop running them. And there you have it. Two leagues again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The sad fact is, British Speedway cannot entice enough riders to ride on those shores, to form a single tier of professional racing. Doubling up riders are cheaper. Sadder still, British riders are struggling to be good enough to find employment on the continent, so riding two leagues suits them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, Col said: The sad fact is, British Speedway cannot entice enough riders to ride on those shores, to form a single tier of professional racing. Doubling up riders are cheaper. Sadder still, British riders are struggling to be good enough to find employment on the continent, so riding two leagues suits them. They don't need to entice. You'd simply promote lower riders. There are more than enough. Not that I am advocating that as the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 well id say im not really a fan of 1 big league but i cant really argue with most of your points and its well thought through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 So if we get even 5% of these 400 motocrossers eager to sample speedway, wishing to stay on as riders, that adds 20 new riders to add to the current crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) The argument of not enough riders to fill all the team places in one big league is not valid. There may not be enough British riders at the moment (due to doubling up) but there are stil plenty of talented riders overseas (Aussis, Kiwis, Yanks, etc), in Scandinavia, and on the Continent, who are just waitng for a chance to ride in the British League. Edited January 7, 2018 by Bavarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bavarian said: The argument of not enough riders to fill all the team places in one big league is not valid. There may not be enough British riders at the moment (due to doubling up) but there are stil plenty of talented riders overseas (Aussis, Kiwis, Yanks, etc), in Scandinavia, and on the Continent, who are just waitng for a chance to ride in the British League. But at what price? The attendances at the lower end in the Championship are 4-500 They wont sustain the proposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The lower end teams of the Championship would have to go National League then. If the one big league has about sixteen to eighteen teams, that's all right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bavarian said: The lower end teams of the Championship would have to go National League then. If the one big league has about sixteen to eighteen teams, that's all right. And ergo you have effectively created a two-tier league system again. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Agree with both of these points and it is a situation I thought may happen but each half of the Championship diesnt seem to want whats on offer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, Bavarian said: The lower end teams of the Championship would have to go National League then. If the one big league has about sixteen to eighteen teams, that's all right. 6 minutes ago, MattK said: And ergo you have effectively created a two-tier league system again. See above - buggered up multi quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted January 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 06/01/2018 at 11:16 AM, Skidder1 said: Its true that the sport as a whole cannot afford the top boys BUT there is a handful of clubs who could afford some of them so why not go for one big league (of approx. Championship level) and allow the handful of clubs to also run a 'Super League' set up if they can afford it and reckon they can attract the crowds? The likes of Wolves, Poole, Rye House, Glasgow, Sheffield etc are backed by a combination of successful businesses and sponsorship and could easily operate a top league on a set night and also run a Championship-level team in the bigger one league? It could be the best of both worlds. 23 hours ago, stevebrum said: Exactly. My sentiments echo that. Many years ago (well over a decade) I came up with the idea that became known by some as the TNT Master plan and that was having one big league at an affordable level. Then the tracks that want to run at a higher level ALSO run a top league on Mondays only meaning the one league can run on any other day they wish so clubs won' have to change race nights apart from Wolverhampton. If Wolves for example had a team in the one league of Thorssell Schlein Howarth Heaps Morris Greaves and Clegg they would use the main five from this team plus two riders taken from a squad of 4 riders they nominate at the start of the season. Wolves could name Lindgren Woffinden Pawlicki and Drabik with two riding in the 14 league meetings during the season on Mondays. Lindgren may do all 14 while Woffinden and Pawlicki could do 7 each and Drabik on standby should he be required and travel over with Woffinden or instead of. This means also Drabik could be used if Thorssell or Schlein are injured while Greaves and Clegg get used if any of the others are missing. The one big league would run pretty freely and the club' not also running a top level team could be put into two groups for the Craven Shield to even up the fixtures and give two local derbies in some cases. 17 hours ago, Grachan said: Difference being the two leagues had different riders. The two leagues now have a lot of the same riders in them. Also, when the two leagues combined intonthe BL, it had the best riders in the world in it. That is not what is being advocated here. Exactly. The mistake before was making the small clubs employ riders they couldn' afford against teams they couldn' beat. 17 hours ago, BWitcher said: Reserve teams are not popular.. in any sport. 16 hours ago, Grachan said: Exactly. Plus, the teams in this 'Super League' would struggle to get support for their championship strength sides. So they would stop running them. And there you have it. Two leagues again. If Poole or Wolves or Belle Vue or Swindon etc ran in both leagues the fans would still go to meetings as they still wear their teams colours and five of the seven are the same riders in both teams. Plus Swindon may do poorly in the top league but be top in the lower league and you only have to look at Belle Vue Colts to see the fans support both levels now even though those two leagues were further apart. One big league.is the way forward for the sport like it or not One top league of just 14 meetings can be done as it is in Sweden and Poland and then could attract more riders back and entrance to the two levels would be different at say £12-15 for the big league and £20 for the top level as many would pay the extra to see Sayfutdinov v Woffinden v Doyle v Pedersen etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 They wouldn't. The majority of fans would go to the senior team and skip the 'reserve team'. Where are you getting £12-15 from? Second division teams are already charging nearly as much as first division sides as it is, i.e. more than £12-15. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, T.N.T. said: The one big league would run pretty freely and the club' not also running a top level team could be put into two groups for the Craven Shield to even up the fixtures and give two local derbies in some cases. Exactly. The mistake before was making the small clubs employ riders they couldn' afford against teams they couldn' beat. If Poole or Wolves or Belle Vue or Swindon etc ran in both leagues the fans would still go to meetings as they still wear their teams colours and five of the seven are the same riders in both teams. Plus Swindon may do poorly in the top league but be top in the lower league and you only have to look at Belle Vue Colts to see the fans support both levels now even though those two leagues were further apart. One big league.is the way forward for the sport like it or not One top league of just 14 meetings can be done as it is in Sweden and Poland and then could attract more riders back and entrance to the two levels would be different at say £12-15 for the big league and £20 for the top level as many would pay the extra to see Sayfutdinov v Woffinden v Doyle v Pedersen etc Unfortunately, all the evidence suggests that wouldn't work. Look at all the Elite League clubs who have tried running a National League team over the years. Swindon, Poole, King's Lynn, Lakeside, Wolves and how many are still running? The only one still running is Wolves and that is because they came up with a clever marketing technique and called their side first Dudley and now Cradley Heathens. There is nothing to suggest that fans of the same club would support your two-tier idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, MattK said: Unfortunately, all the evidence suggests that wouldn't work. Look at all the Elite League clubs who have tried running a National League team over the years. Swindon, Poole, King's Lynn, Lakeside, Wolves and how many are still running? The only one still running is Wolves and that is because they came up with a clever marketing technique and called their side first Dudley and now Cradley Heathens. There is nothing to suggest that fans of the same club would support your two-tier idea. I think you might be in trouble suggesting that Cradley are Wolverhampton's NL team. Belle Vue are the only PL team running a NL team. The crowds for the Colts were decent at that level but way below those for the Aces despite the excellent racing and admission fees of £10 for adults, £8 for concessions and free admission for anyone under 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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