THINGS DON'T CHANGE

[BWitcher]

39 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

If you mean the decline in British Speedway, YES I AM

If you mean the 1981 World Final - to which the thread appears to have moved - NO I'M NOT

Have a little think about why 1981 is being talked about.. reading the opening post might help.

[Aces51]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

It's the ultimate example of how folks look back and forget the dross.

If that meeting was a Grand Prix now it would be being slagged off.

Rightly or wrongly it was regarded as one of the best world finals at the time, nothing to do with looking back. You can look at it now on video and I agree, there are only a few good races but at the time it was the expectation, the hype, the massive crowd, Wembley, the atmosphere, the Penhall races and the Penhall factor. He was without doubt the biggest personality Speedway had and that coupled with the way he won and all of the other factors made it a fantastic and memorable experience for those of us who were there. I attended many World finals at Wembley and they were the only meetings where I always had butterflies in my stomach as I sat waiting for the meeting to start. Wembley finals were a fantastic experience regardless of the quality of the racing which never, ever, compared to what I regularly saw at Hyde Road but as an overall experience there was no comparison.

For those asking about the Speedway boom years. The 1930's, the immediate post war years, by far the biggest crowds speedway has ever attracted and 1965 to about 1980. Regardless of the number of tracks the sport has never attracted so few paying fans as it does currently. Even in what was regarded as the poor years of the late 1950's the 9 or 10 remaining tracks were attracting crowds that would now be regarded as massive.

[BWitcher]

I would never argue that it wasn't a fantastic event to be at, I have always said that an average speedway meetings in front of a large crowd with a great atmosphere is better than a great meeting in front of a sparse crowd. Wembley and the size of the crowd, the names taking place and the prize at stake obviously amplified that many times over.

[SCB]

11 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

the racing in most gps is better, in some cases significantly.

however it's unfair to say Wembley 81 was rubbish. it had

- two brilliant races which determined the destiny of the world final

- a line up that was arguably as strong as it could be given the inclusion of 5 continental riders. no riders missing who would have been genuine contenders

- a large crowd in a world class stadium, generating a fantastic atmosphere.

- drama of ef for three of the leading contenders. didn't change the likely winner, but certainly the other rostrum spots

I think it deserves its status as a legendary meeting, which goes also to show how the GPS (and SWC if BSI don't consign thst to the scrap hesp) have raised the standard of racing and ensured lineups which represent the worlds elite. but the gps will never generate the atmosphere that a one off final at Wembley did 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Certainly wasn't rubbish. I went and for atmosphere it took some beating...which is one of the main ingredients for a speedway meeting. Certainly compared with Cardiff when I went some years back.

Maybe it was great to be at. But to watch it on Youtube/video/DVD and it's rubbish. Maybe it worked because it was promoted and presented well and people were actually fooled bt this into thinking the speedway was good? Maybe promoters these days need to replicate that.

If I was to show someone a video of great speedway I wouldn't pick the 1981 World Final, not by a long way.

[moxey63]

19 minutes ago, SCB said:

 

Maybe it was great to be at. But to watch it on Youtube/video/DVD and it's rubbish. Maybe it worked because it was promoted and presented well and people were actually fooled bt this into thinking the speedway was good? Maybe promoters these days need to replicate that.

If I was to show someone a video of great speedway I wouldn't pick the 1981 World Final, not by a long way.

The 20-odd minutes that were shown on TV the night of the final sold it as being a great meeting. We arguably have better racing nowadays,  but the sport itself is stook back in time, whereas other forms of entertainment progressed. 

[Midland Red]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

Read the original post. Then read your post.

 

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

Have a little think about why 1981 is being talked about.. reading the opening post might help.

 

?????   The original post referred to the downward spiral in British Speedway, to which I offered OOFC as a major contributory factor

The original post referred to an article on the state of British Speedway and was written before the 1981 World Final ever took place

The thread has, for some reason, moved on to become a discussion about that event, which was not the original topic

To return to Mr Rising's 1981 article and the comment in his opening post, I refer to my opinion about a major factor in the continuing downward spiral in the 36 years since then (irrespective of the standard of racing in one particular event)

 

[MattK]

1 minute ago, Midland Red said:

 

 

?????   The original post referred to the downward spiral in British Speedway

 

In 1981!

You then come along and blame the GPs, a phenomenon which wasn't introduced until 14 years AFTER the article was written.

[BWitcher]

3 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

 

 

?????   The original post referred to the downward spiral in British Speedway, to which I offered OOFC as a major contributory factor

The original post referred to an article on the state of British Speedway and was written before the 1981 World Final ever took place

The thread has, for some reason, moved on to become a discussion about that event, which was not the original topic

To return to Mr Rising's 1981 article and the comment in his opening post, I refer to my opinion about a major factor in the continuing downward spiral in the 36 years since then (irrespective of the standard of racing in one particular event)

 

Still not grasping it are you. The article was written in 1981. It was already discussing the MAIN issues that have contributed to the continued demise of the sport. The Grand Prix was 15 years away by which time a vast number of fans had already walked away.

[moxey63]

The thread's title is "Things Don't Change." 

 

Happy New Year, BWitcher!

Edited January 4, 2018 by moxey63

[uk_martin]

19 hours ago, Midland Red said:

...Riders' costs and expectations have risen astronomically since the introduction of OOFC...

Phillip Rising can probably dig out some articles written in Speedway Star from 1976-77-78 bemoaning the costs rising astronomically since the introduction of the 4-valve engines such as the Weslake and before that the Neil Street Conversion, not to mention, ultimately the new JAWA 4-valver, the Weslake SOHC and the Weslake DOHC engines, twin spark plugs, twin carbs and all the other developments that were going on at the time.

Same symptoms, just someone / something else to blame for it.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Edited January 5, 2018 by uk_martin

[Tsunami]

17 hours ago, uk_martin said:

Phillip Rising can probably dig out some articles written in Speedway Star from 1976-77-78 bemoaning the costs rising astronomically since the introduction of the 4-valve engines such as the Weslake and before that the Neil Street Conversion, not to mention, ultimately the new JAWA 4-valver, the Weslake SOHC and the Weslake DOHC engines, twin spark plugs, twin carbs and all the other developments that were going on at the time.

Same symptoms, just someone / something else to blame for it.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

You can't  beat the Brummie language, can you.

[ch958]

17 hours ago, uk_martin said:

Phillip Rising can probably dig out some articles written in Speedway Star from 1976-77-78 bemoaning the costs rising astronomically since the introduction of the 4-valve engines such as the Weslake and before that the Neil Street Conversion, not to mention, ultimately the new JAWA 4-valver, the Weslake SOHC and the Weslake DOHC engines, twin spark plugs, twin carbs and all the other developments that were going on at the time.

Same symptoms, just someone / something else to blame for it.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

4 valves the beginning of the end, followed by laydowns

this is when firm leadership was needed to avoid what is now effectively an arms race where no one wins but tuners and kit suppliers

extra 2 mph while we on the terraces gain nothing

[fatface]

1981 was the year I attended my first meeting. Right from the get-go, I absolutely loved it. I really hope there are other 7 year olds who have that same feeling I had in 2018 about the sport and are blissfully unaware of all the silly politics around it. I remember we bumped into my hero Chris Morton in a motorway service on the way back from a meeting. I was absolutely beside myself with excitement...happily the sport still has that down-to-earth accessibility other sports have lost.  

My fear is that the parents of these 7 year olds are not buying into it any more. The overall product is not strong enough to justify an outing for the whole family. Now, I have kids of my own and live in Devon. Can I see myself taking my 5 year old twins to Plymouth Speedway in a couple of years? Or will I prefer to spend my money on an outing to a climbing centre, the cinema, the Exeter Chiefs, the theatre, swimming? All similarly priced, all patently better leisure experiences, all much more likely to be enjoyed by the whole family. It's a no-brainer really.

ps. on the 81 final, I think the collective joy was around the champion himself. Penhall had the looks, style, charisma that no other rider before or since could match and he won the title in such a brilliant fashion too. That's why we remember it so fondly. Plus, he was on Tiswas too.

[Halifaxtiger]

27 minutes ago, falcace said:

1981 was the year I attended my first meeting. Right from the get-go, I absolutely loved it. I really hope there are other 7 year olds who have that same feeling I had in 2018 about the sport and are blissfully unaware of all the silly politics around it. I remember we bumped into my hero Chris Morton in a motorway service on the way back from a meeting. I was absolutely beside myself with excitement...happily the sport still has that down-to-earth accessibility other sports have lost.  

My fear is that the parents of these 7 year olds are not buying into it any more. The overall product is not strong enough to justify an outing for the whole family. Now, I have kids of my own and live in Devon. Can I see myself taking my 5 year old twins to Plymouth Speedway in a couple of years? Or will I prefer to spend my money on an outing to a climbing centre, the cinema, the Exeter Chiefs, the theatre, swimming? All similarly priced, all patently better leisure experiences, all much more likely to be enjoyed by the whole family. It's a no-brainer really.

ps. on the 81 final, I think the collective joy was around the champion himself. Penhall had the looks, style, charisma that no other rider before or since could match and he won the title in such a brilliant fashion too. That's why we remember it so fondly. Plus, he was on Tiswas too.

I did a week on the Isle of Wight last year. Seeing the youngsters at the My First Skid sessions, watching their faces as Barry Bishop & I staged a mock race on stationary machines with them on the saddle at a show and seeing them line up at the tapes with their push bikes to do a lap of the track at the interval suggests to me you might just be wrong there.

Two adults and as many children as you like is £24 on the Island. Not sure you could do the cinema or the theatre for the same.

Your experience as a 7 year old (and I had the same) can most definitely be repeated today. Motor bikes will always have an attraction for children, its just a question of gearing everything up to give the nippers the best night out they can have.

Its worth a try, surely, for your children to have that sense of excitement that you had ? Beats swimming, doesn't it ?

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[Grand Central]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

ps. on the 81 final, I think the collective joy was around the champion himself. Penhall had the looks, style, charisma that no other rider before or since could match and he won the title in such a brilliant fashion too. That's why we remember it so fondly. Plus, he was on Tiswas too.

Actually, even that is only part of the story.

We travelled to Wembley from Halifax and were ONLY interested in a KC win.
It should have been the worst thing in the world for the despised Penhall to win and in THAT fashion.

But he did.

And yet even so ... that night remains in the top three Speedway meetings I have attended in my lifetime.
And the other two up there are not GPs either.

I do really love the SGPs ... but being honest probably only the odd one or two creeps into my Top Ten of best meetings ever.
It isn't all about 'the racing'. Never has been
The best EXPERIENCE is a combination of so much more that just 'counting up the passes' on the track.

Perhaps you just had to be there.
But Wembley 1981 really was THAT special.
And trying to explain just how tangible that experience was to those who were not present is just utterly futile.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Grand Central

[topaz325]

2 hours ago, Grand Central said:

Actually, even that is only part of the story.

We travelled to Wembley from Halifax and were ONLY interested in a KC win.
It should have been the worst thing in the world for the despised Penhall to win and in THAT fashion.

But he did.

And yet even so ... that night remains in the top three Speedway meetings I have attended in my lifetime.
And the other two up there are not GPs either.

I do really love the SGPs ... but being honest probably only the odd one or two creeps into my Top Ten of best meetings ever.
It isn't all about 'the racing'. Never has been
The best EXPERIENCE is a combination of so much more that just 'counting up the passes' on the track.

Perhaps you just had to be there.
But Wembley 1981 really was THAT special.
And trying to explain just how tangible that experience was to those who were not present is just utterly futile.

Agree I was there too; a bit like Cardiff sometimes it’s the experience rather than the racing!!

[Terry]

5 hours ago, falcace said:

 

ps. on the 81 final, I think the collective joy was around the champion himself. Penhall had the looks, style, charisma that no other rider before or since could match and he won the title in such a brilliant fashion too. That's why we remember it so fondly. Plus, he was on Tiswas too.

That's on youtube. Bruce trundling along on the little tricycle (he was still going faster than in that Overseas Final race though!) I wonder who won his racesuit?

It was a massive blow to the sport when he retired, and it somehow took something away from Carter...Their rivalry was legendary.

 

[fatface]

8 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I did a week on the Isle of Wight last year. Seeing the youngsters at the My First Skid sessions, watching their faces as Barry Bishop & I staged a mock race on stationary machines with them on the saddle at a show and seeing them line up at the tapes with their push bikes to do a lap of the track at the interval suggests to me you might just be wrong there.

Two adults and as many children as you like is £24 on the Island. Not sure you could do the cinema or the theatre for the same.

Your experience as a 7 year old (and I had the same) can most definitely be repeated today. Motor bikes will always have an attraction for children, its just a question of gearing everything up to give the nippers the best night out they can have.

Its worth a try, surely, for your children to have that sense of excitement that you had ? Beats swimming, doesn't it ?

 

I don’t think it’s a case of being wrong or right. I think it’s a concern that people like me, who have great affection for the sport with a young family see other leisure activities as much better value and a better family experience. All the activities I list have upped their game and evolved since the 80s. British Speedway has not.

I doubt I am alone in that opinion. Based on my last live experience of speedway, young families were massively outnumbered by 60 and overs. That’s a worrying trend.

I’m sure some clubs - and a few on here make a good case for the Isle of Wight - deliver a better family experience than others. But broadly speaking, the sport isn’t providing a good enough package to entice young families through the turnstiles.

I am sure when the time comes, I will take my children. But it will be more out of my own nostalgic fondness than any great optimism they will enjoy it.

Edited January 5, 2018 by falcace

[lucifer sam]

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:40 PM, SCB said:

 

Maybe it was great to be at. But to watch it on Youtube/video/DVD and it's rubbish. Maybe it worked because it was promoted and presented well and people were actually fooled bt this into thinking the speedway was good? Maybe promoters these days need to replicate that.

If I was to show someone a video of great speedway I wouldn't pick the 1981 World Final, not by a long way.

Does the video of the meeting really matter?

What is far more important is the experience of those on the night.  And Wembley '81 was a magical meeting.  The atmospheric was electric, especially during the Penhall/Olsen and Penhall/Knudsen duels.

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like this meeting wasn't actually there!

 

 

[moxey63]

11 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

 

Does the video of the meeting really matter?

What is far more important is the experience of those on the night.  And Wembley '81 was a magical meeting.  The atmospheric was electric, especially during the Penhall/Olsen and Penhall/Knudsen duels.

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like this meeting wasn't actually there!

 

 

I wasn't there but enjoyed the racing on ITV and later, on video. Proper speedway racing, when it could pull crowds.