THINGS DON'T CHANGE

[MattK]

3 minutes ago, Vince said:

I can't imagine any clubs can afford to try that!

How can they afford NOT to try?

When Swindon did entry for a tenner and there was a very strong crowd (maybe 50% up). The following week there was no meeting and the week after it was back to £17 and regular crowd levels.

This would suggest there is a sweet point, somewhere between £10 and £17 which would maximise revenue. £10 is too cheap (the rise in attendance didn't make up for the drop in income) however £17 seemed to put off many from returning.

[Vince]

5 minutes ago, MattK said:

How can they afford NOT to try?

When Swindon did entry for a tenner and there was a very strong crowd (maybe 50% up). The following week there was no meeting and the week after it was back to £17 and regular crowd levels.

This would suggest there is a sweet point, somewhere between £10 and £17 which would maximise revenue. £10 is too cheap (the rise in attendance didn't make up for the drop in income) however £17 seemed to put off many from returning.

That may possibly be true but far more likely is that a price of say £13 may result in a small increase that will then drop back to your hardcore support in a couple of months. Then in order to get income back to where you started from you put the price back to £17 only to find you have alienated some of them too.

It doesn't seem likely to me that £13 instead of £17 entry will make much difference to many peoples attendance although continual small rises I think do bite.

I believe that the price isn't the major issue, the value for money is. Even if you drop the price you have to increase the entertainment and improve the atmosphere to bring the crowd to a level that sees income improve.

[Sings4Speedway]

From my perspective its all about value for money and being entertained. Even following NL at the cheaper end of the scale i picked my meetings this year at Kent as i was becoming bored of big home wins with limited entertainment. Im not going to visit every week just because a meeting is on i want to be entertained. Its also down to false economy as i didn't think twice about the fuel in the car going to Peterborough just the entry fee but i did receive good entertainment with the racing in return however i couldn't justify it every week.

Speedway fans are no longer happy to blindly hand over money whenever any team visits they want a two sides of equal quality on a track that can produce decent racing and they will be happy. The formula is simple and yet its still often messed up.

[moxey63]

Does anybody believe Cardiff would be an almost sell out if it wasn't on live TV?

[MattK]

25 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Does anybody believe Cardiff would be an almost sell out if it wasn't on live TV?

Yes. In fact I'd suggest that the crowd might be slightly higher if it wasn't on TV, as a few armchair fans might be tempted into attending. The big difference with Cardiff though is that the meeting is almost a side attraction for the whole day (or weekend in some people's cases). Everything about attending Cardiff is an experience completely unique to anything else in the British speedway calendar.

[Baldyman]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

How can they afford NOT to try?

When Swindon did entry for a tenner and there was a very strong crowd (maybe 50% up). The following week there was no meeting and the week after it was back to £17 and regular crowd levels.

This would suggest there is a sweet point, somewhere between £10 and £17 which would maximise revenue. £10 is too cheap (the rise in attendance didn't make up for the drop in income) however £17 seemed to put off many from returning.

With the greater attendance with new and returning fans...it should have been a good opportunity to do a survey on why the new fans went and the old ones returned and what would be needed to be done to get them to come back again...and actually ask people what they would be prepared to pay on a weekly basis

[uk_martin]

6 hours ago, Harry The Goat said:

If demand isn't there for the full price, then the full price is too high. Simple as that. A lower price needs to be applied on a regular basis, not just as a one-off.

Didn't they drop the price at Belle Vue to £10 about 6-7 years ago? From what I was told, there was a brief surge in attendance but after a month or so, the attendances leveled out at pre price drop levels. All that the Aces got in the end was the same crowd levels for two thirds of the income. Interestingly, when they abandoned the experiment, and returned to the £15 original admission, the old faithful kept on on coming, even at the higher price.

Perhaps the next person who wants to tell us about demand and supply economics should look at the concept of "price elasticity of demand" too, and explain that as part of their theory.

 

[RobMcCaffery]

12 hours ago, uk_martin said:

Didn't they drop the price at Belle Vue to £10 about 6-7 years ago? From what I was told, there was a brief surge in attendance but after a month or so, the attendances leveled out at pre price drop levels. All that the Aces got in the end was the same crowd levels for two thirds of the income. Interestingly, when they abandoned the experiment, and returned to the £15 original admission, the old faithful kept on on coming, even at the higher price.

Perhaps the next person who wants to tell us about demand and supply economics should look at the concept of "price elasticity of demand" too, and explain that as part of their theory.

 

Well, it's been a few years since I received my Honours Degree in Economic History - 38 years this summer (Liverpool if you ask - great pubs plus proximity to the far more essential 'schools' at Belle Vue and Ellesmere Port), but I'd say most sports show distinct inelasticity of demand given the huge rise in prices that it and other sports have got away with over, say those 38 years. Assessing such inelasticity of course is dependent on the reasons for the decline in purchasers of the product, price or quality of supply. 

There I knew some of it might come in useful one day....

Do not make me resort to econometrics ;-)

 

[martinmauger]

Inelasticity of demand: a phrase I've personnally used since my own college days.  But don't some F1 races have problems selling tickets, seem to reacall at least one where part of the circuit seems deserted.  Don't recall which tracks, possibly one or two of the far Eastern ones.  Please don't resort to econometrics, trying to keep discussions relatively light and uncomplicated ....

[Sidney the robin]

18 hours ago, MattK said:

How can they afford NOT to try?

When Swindon did entry for a tenner and there was a very strong crowd (maybe 50% up). The following week there was no meeting and the week after it was back to £17 and regular crowd levels.

This would suggest there is a sweet point, somewhere between £10 and £17 which would maximise revenue. £10 is too cheap (the rise in attendance didn't make up for the drop in income) however £17 seemed to put off many from returning.

 

17 hours ago, MattK said:

Yes. In fact I'd suggest that the crowd might be slightly higher if it wasn't on TV, as a few armchair fans might be tempted into attending. The big difference with Cardiff though is that the meeting is almost a side attraction for the whole day (or weekend in some people's cases). Everything about attending Cardiff is an experience completely unique to anything else in the British speedway calendar.

 

17 hours ago, MattK said:

Yes. In fact I'd suggest that the crowd might be slightly higher if it wasn't on TV, as a few armchair fans might be tempted into attending. The big difference with Cardiff though is that the meeting is almost a side attraction for the whole day (or weekend in some people's cases). Everything about attending Cardiff is an experience completely unique to anything else in the British speedway calendar.

What do you think the prices should be Matt? that odd couple of quid saving for people does make a difference at the Abbey we did have some great  gates even though the profit margins were lower.What about 15 pound entrance plus a free programme??  could that work  i do think we have to have one meeting a week two many big gaps between fixtures.

[waytogo28]

Things first went awry around 1975 with the introduction of the four valve engine and then later with the lay down as they both increased the "first away wins" perception of speedway, which is what you see in 75% of races nowadays. Not enough on track racing thrills to keep people going back to see more.

[MattK]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

What do you think the prices should be Matt? that odd couple of quid saving for people does make a difference at the Abbey we did have some great  gates even though the profit margins were lower.What about 15 pound entrance plus a free programme??  could that work  i do think we have to have one meeting a week two many big gaps between fixtures.

I don't think £17 is too expensive, especially when you consider the underlying cost of running the team. As you said, I think a bigger factor influencing attendances is the irregular fixtures. Gaps of over a week followed by two fixtures in seven days towards the end of the season goes help people get into a habit of attending.

[Midland Red]

7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Well, it's been a few years since I received my Honours Degree in Economic History - 38 years this summer (Liverpool if you ask - great pubs plus proximity to the far more essential 'schools' at Belle Vue and Ellesmere Port), but I'd say most sports show distinct inelasticity of demand given the huge rise in prices that it and other sports have got away with over, say those 38 years. Assessing such inelasticity of course is dependent on the reasons for the decline in purchasers of the product, price or quality of supply. 

There I knew some of it might come in useful one day....

Do not make me resort to econometrics ;-)

 

I still maintain that a major factor in the reduction in demand for the product is due to the growing availability on television

[Baldyman]

Wouldn't the TV viewing figure be better if that was the case??? It's not very well watched.

Its just reaching the end of its life...and that's all these is to it.

[BWitcher]

2 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

Things first went awry around 1975 with the introduction of the four valve engine and then later with the lay down as they both increased the "first away wins" perception of speedway, which is what you see in 75% of races nowadays. Not enough on track racing thrills to keep people going back to see more.

Except they didn't.

It's staggering how often these falsehoods can be spouted even when there is readily available evidence that shows otherwise.

Speedway has ALWAYS been mostly first from the gate wins. There isn't more or less passing now than 20, 30, 40 years ago. As always, we only remember the good races.

 

[Baldyman]

Agree with that.... The racing wasn't any better...just the fact I was younger and excited at watching bikes going fast and making plenty of noise....throw in a bigger crowd making more atmosphere...and it makes the past seem better.   

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Agree with that.... The racing wasn't any better...just the fact I was younger and excited at watching bikes going fast and making plenty of noise....throw in a bigger crowd making more atmosphere...and it makes the past seem better.   

As Billy Connolly once quoted it's not whether things were better or worse it's just that one is trying to re-capture one's youth and how one remembers it.

[B.V 72]

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 6:46 PM, bruno said:

Out of interest anyone know how much I would have paid to get in as a 14 year old for my first meeting in 1975 at Dudley Wood

Can't say re 1975 but in 1972 I remember at Belle vue the prices were 15p for a child 30p for an adult and 6p for a prog.2 buses there and 2 buses back at 2p a trip total 29p out of my 50p a week spends with 12 of us going every week happy days sad to say I am the only one of the group who still goes.

Edited January 11, 2018 by B.V 72

[steve roberts]

6 minutes ago, B.V 72 said:

Can't say re 1975 but in 1972 I remember at Belle vue the prices were 15p for a child 30p for an adult and 6p for a prog.2 buses there and 2 buses back at 2p a trip total 29p out of my 50p a week spends with 12 of us going every week happy days sad to say I am the only one of the group who still goes.

...seem to recall Oxford had a similar pricing structure in 1972 but the programme cost 8p if I remember.

[BWitcher]

35 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

Agree with that.... The racing wasn't any better...just the fact I was younger and excited at watching bikes going fast and making plenty of noise....throw in a bigger crowd making more atmosphere...and it makes the past seem better.   

Absolutely spot on.

When I sit and think back to the late 80's, early 90's and the era at Wolverhampton of Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy etc all I remember is sheer excitement, every single race as being fantastic etc.

Then I pop in a DVD and watch and see countless processional races, riders literally on the back straight as the winner crosses the line etc. 

Does it change the way I feel about those days? Hell no. My heart still tells me it was infinitely better then, my head says in terms of the actual racing the reality is different.

As an aside, the abolition of bonus pts on averages had a negative effect from a purely psychological point of view. When a 10pt+ (or even 11) rider came to your track there was a sense of awe and excitement. Even the high 9pt average riders. When bonus pts were abolished and averages dropped much of that awe seemed to be taken away, even though in reality it had no impact on the ability of any said rider.

That point can of course be expanded to the heat formats. When the 15 heat format came in and the top two met in Heat 13, plus the nominated in 15, again it had an effect on averages of riders. It's part of why folk think there were so many more 'stars' back in the day. League size plays a big role in that also.