The C word ( chaos )

[waytogo28]

So it turns out the Philip Rising and the Speedway Star have many of the same, very serious concerns about the state of Speedway GB, as a lot of fans do. The  C word has now been openly used and not just about one of the several things wrong with speedway in the UK. It is chaotic and run chaotically. It is time that someone more balanced ( I nearly wrote sane ) took control of the situation and brought in a much more common sense approach to how the sport should be run. Is it too late for that to happen?

[Phil The Ace]

The go to men are the hearns. But both have no interest in speesway. 

 

We're doomed I'm afraid 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Phil The Ace

[Baldyman]

It's not the c word I was thinking of to describe those ruining speedway.

[foamfence]

2 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

So it turns out the Philip Rising and the Speedway Star have many of the same, very serious concerns about the state of Speedway GB, as a lot of fans do. The  C word has now been openly used and not just about one of the several things wrong with speedway in the UK. It is chaotic and run chaotically. It is time that someone more balanced ( I nearly wrote sane ) took control of the situation and brought in a much more common sense approach to how the sport should be run. Is it too late for that to happen?

People will have their own ideas about how the sport is run. The problem as I see it, is that the sport is accommodating too many lame duck clubs and therefore has to lower it's aspirations in order to keep them in the mix. A lower number of wealthier clubs could probably have a more stable and successful league, while any remainers could go amateur. I expect criticism for saying this but currently it's a great mystery to me how some clubs are managing to keep going in the current framework, even though it has been scaled down.  

[Fromafar]

1 minute ago, foamfence said:

People will have their own ideas about how the sport is run. The problem as I see it, is that the sport is accommodating too many lame duck clubs and therefore has to lower it's aspirations in order to keep them in the mix. A lower number of wealthier clubs could probably have a more stable and successful league, while any remainers could go amateur. I expect criticism for saying this but currently it's a great mystery to me how some clubs are managing to keep going in the current framework, even though it has been scaled down.  

I have to agree about how some clubs manage to balance the books,given the figures quoted regarding riders points money it certainly a mystery how some clubs are viable ,it is certainly not on crowd levels.Sponsers with money to give away seems more like it,and fans donations.

[Baldyman]

34 minutes ago, foamfence said:

People will have their own ideas about how the sport is run. The problem as I see it, is that the sport is accommodating too many lame duck clubs and therefore has to lower it's aspirations in order to keep them in the mix. A lower number of wealthier clubs could probably have a more stable and successful league, while any remainers could go amateur. I expect criticism for saying this but currently it's a great mystery to me how some clubs are managing to keep going in the current framework, even though it has been scaled down.  

Couldn't agree more...like in all forms of life..if you can't financially compete..you lower your aspirations and cut your cloth accordingly.    

Edited December 28, 2017 by Baldyman

[uk_martin]

1 hour ago, foamfence said:

People will have their own ideas about how the sport is run. The problem as I see it, is that the sport is accommodating too many lame duck clubs and therefore has to lower it's aspirations in order to keep them in the mix. A lower number of wealthier clubs could probably have a more stable and successful league, while any remainers could go amateur. I expect criticism for saying this but currently it's a great mystery to me how some clubs are managing to keep going in the current framework, even though it has been scaled down.  

What you are basically saying is that you have to crack some eggs to make an omelette. The reaction you will get will depend on if a fan supports a team that makes up the egg yolk, or of it a fan of a team that makes up the egg shell that gets thrown away into the bin.

 

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, foamfence said:

People will have their own ideas about how the sport is run. The problem as I see it, is that the sport is accommodating too many lame duck clubs and therefore has to lower it's aspirations in order to keep them in the mix. A lower number of wealthier clubs could probably have a more stable and successful league, while any remainers could go amateur. I expect criticism for saying this but currently it's a great mystery to me how some clubs are managing to keep going in the current framework, even though it has been scaled down.  

As a matter of interest, and not aimed as a criticism, but which current clubs are deemed wealthier (presumably breaking even) compared to the rest based on whatever information is available?

[MattK]

I think the main reason speedway appears so chaotic isn't the decisions themselves, which I am sure are based on considered opinions, but is in fact the lack of transparency. For example, why haven't the promoters who voted in favour of the "one over 8" rule been made to come forwards and explain their logic?

Similarly, the process for which foreign riders receive assessed averages seems completely random, yet I am sure someone at least thinks they know how they are determined - so why isn't this published in the public domain?

Until then, the determining and implementation of rules will always seem random and chaotic.

[Baldyman]

54 minutes ago, MattK said:

I think the main reason speedway appears so chaotic isn't the decisions themselves, which I am sure are based on considered opinions, but is in fact the lack of transparency. For example, why haven't the promoters who voted in favour of the "one over 8" rule been made to come forwards and explain their logic?

Similarly, the process for which foreign riders receive assessed averages seems completely random, yet I am sure someone at least thinks they know how they are determined - so why isn't this published in the public domain?

Until then, the determining and implementation of rules will always seem random and chaotic.

I only really follow a few sports....but do other sports come out and explain to its punters why decisions are made???   The only reasons for change I hear from the sports I follow is for closer racing and keeping costs down.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Baldyman

[Badge]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

I think the main reason speedway appears so chaotic isn't the decisions themselves, which I am sure are based on considered opinions, but is in fact the lack of transparency. For example, why haven't the promoters who voted in favour of the "one over 8" rule been made to come forwards and explain their logic?

Similarly, the process for which foreign riders receive assessed averages seems completely random, yet I am sure someone at least thinks they know how they are determined - so why isn't this published in the public domain?

Until then, the determining and implementation of rules will always seem random and chaotic.

 

14 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

I only really follow a few sports....but do other sports come out and explain to its punters why decisions are made???   The only reasons for change I hear from the sports I follow is for closer racing and keeping costs down.

I have to agree baldy, it seems to me the only sport that the fans want, no expect, to be given all the rules, why such rules and who voted for them and why, is speedway. 

It seems to me no-one these days just enjoys the sport of 4 guys racing anymore. Sad

[Baldyman]

Correct badge......for some reason speedway fans think the sport owes them something...it doesn't. You either go and watch or you don't....Having said that...the rules should be set and left....don't change them cos someone or team doesn't like it.

[PHILIPRISING]

BECAUSE there are far too many rules, many of which contradict one another. Rules should be about what you can do, not what you cannot.,

[Baldyman]

So make a set of rules...easy to understand rules...and stick to them for a say 10 years....its not a hard thing to do. 

[steve roberts]

55 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

So make a set of rules...easy to understand rules...and stick to them for a say 10 years....its not a hard thing to do. 

...I grew tired when it seemed that most winters rules were changed and altered...points limits, number of heats per meeting varying between 13. 14. 15. 16 and even 18. It even got to the ridiculous stage where both leagues adopted different heat formula, number of riders per team (varying from six to eight), six lap races, numerous nominated heats during at least one season I recall, doubling up and down, constant changes to the T/S and R/R regulations etc etc.I even seem to recall that when fixed gates were introduced prior to the 1988 season a team that went behind six or more points were allowed to choose gates...the rule being quickly changed again after it was realised that it went against why the ruling had been first introduced.

It's basically four bikes circumnavigating an oval track over four laps with a three, two, one scoring system.

Edited December 28, 2017 by steve roberts

[MattK]

51 minutes ago, Badge said:

It seems to me no-one these days just enjoys the sport of 4 guys racing anymore. Sad

Actually, thousands, in fact tens of thousands enjoy 4 guys racing, it's called the Grand Prix. No arbitrary rules, points limits, "assessments", just pure racing.

Unfortunately, for many reasons, league racing needs to have some element of restrictions in order to cater for clubs with a wide variance of incomes and support levels. My grip is that this is not done in a transparent way so that all fans feel their are competing on a level playing field.

[PHILIPRISING]

1 hour ago, Baldyman said:

So make a set of rules...easy to understand rules...and stick to them for a say 10 years....its not a hard thing to do. 

THE BSPA think it is

[Baldyman]

But they don't stick to the rules...they change them every year...and now they have started changing them before the season even starts.    Doing things like that will never enhance the chances of getting title sponsors on board..where the teams actually compete for more than a piece of plastic.

[SCB]

3 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BECAUSE there are far too many rules, many of which contradict one another. Rules should be about what you can do, not what you cannot.,

That’s just not true. People making up fake rules that eventually people think are true confuses things.

Only this week we’ve had the “fact” on here, twitter and Facebook that Doyle only rides here so he can get a visa to ride in Poland. It’s now become some sort of fact but it’s not even for a grain of truth. Someone posted it in an authoritative way and now it’s “true”. Happens all the time.

Which rules contradict? Should be easy for you (or anyone) to answer because there’s too many of them apparently.

[BWitcher]

Exactly.. it's an utter myth that there are far too many rules. 

They come up with some poorly written ones for sure, but too many? Nope.