Who is the Greatest ?

[sommelier]

http://For me, Gollob, end of!

[refereerick]

Muhammad Ali.

[E I Addio]

8 hours ago, norbold said:

Having seen them both over many years, I can't agree with the idea that Briggo was a better racer than Fundin. They were equally determined to win at all costs and ruthless, so I don't think there is any difference on that score, but I do think Fundin actually had more control of his bike and had a more astute racing brain than Briggo and that was why, during the time they were both at the top of their game, Fundin had a superior record to Briggo's, both in terms of titles won and in head to head clashes.

Perhaps it’s horses for courses though. Briggs form was more erratic than Fundin (or Mauger for that matter ) but when he was on form and really had his head in the right place he was IMO completely unbeatable.  You only have to look at the footage of his World Final win in Sweden in ‘64 or ‘66 (cant remember which ) when it rained furiously throughout and there was more sawdust on the track than shale.Everybody else was all over the place but Briggo waltzed home as if it was perfect conditions.

The other thing to remember is that in the Briggs /Fundin era they didn’t earn the money they get now and towards the latter half of each career they both had outside interests which must have been a distraction, and with the financial incentive of the modern sport they both may well have ridden longer with undivided attention and achieved even more than they did.

Finally, as I have said before Ivan Maugers words : If there was no Barry Briggs there would have been no Ivan Mauger. What he meant was to be World  Champion he had to study everything Briggs did and build on it, just as Olsen and later generations took Mauger  as their example and built on that, so it’s really a bit futile to put one against another from different eras. 

 

[steve roberts]

10 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Perhaps it’s horses for courses though. Briggs form was more erratic than Fundin (or Mauger for that matter ) but when he was on form and really had his head in the right place he was IMO completely unbeatable.  You only have to look at the footage of his World Final win in Sweden in ‘64 or ‘66 (cant remember which ) when it rained furiously throughout and there was more sawdust on the track than shale.Everybody else was all over the place but Briggo waltzed home as if it was perfect conditions.

The other thing to remember is that in the Briggs /Fundin era they didn’t earn the money they get now and towards the latter half of each career they both had outside interests which must have been a distraction, and with the financial incentive of the modern sport they both may well have ridden longer with undivided attention and achieved even more than they did.

Finally, as I have said before Ivan Maugers words : If there was no Barry Briggs there would have been no Ivan Mauger. What he meant was to be World  Champion he had to study everything Briggs did and build on it, just as Olsen and later generations took Mauger  as their example and built on that, so it’s really a bit futile to put one against another from different eras. 

 

...or indeed Ronnie Moore who was the first world star to emerge from NZ.

[Grachan]

10 hours ago, steve roberts said:

It's true that Nielsen lost three run-offs but the fact that he was that close to achieving three more wins to add to his four tells me how dominant he was.

If the GPs had been run during the 80's in my view (as well as John Berry's) he would have dominated. Rickardssom obviously won five of his championships under the GP system which required quite a different approach but would he have been as successful under the old system? We can only conjecture...comparisons are difficult to evaluate in my view especially within different eras.

 

I think that maybe Nielsen gets a bit overlooked sometimes when looking at all-time greats because he won his World titles in an era when there was no speedway on television. I remember having to buy a poorly produced video to watch his title win in Poland.

Because of this, people tend to remember his losses to Erik Gundersen when looking back, rather than the wins. That's certainly the case with me, anyway.

[Sidney the robin]

10 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Perhaps it’s horses for courses though. Briggs form was more erratic than Fundin (or Mauger for that matter ) but when he was on form and really had his head in the right place he was IMO completely unbeatable.  You only have to look at the footage of his World Final win in Sweden in ‘64 or ‘66 (cant remember which ) when it rained furiously throughout and there was more sawdust on the track than shale.Everybody else was all over the place but Briggo waltzed home as if it was perfect conditions.

The other thing to remember is that in the Briggs /Fundin era they didn’t earn the money they get now and towards the latter half of each career they both had outside interests which must have been a distraction, and with the financial incentive of the modern sport they both may well have ridden longer with undivided attention and achieved even more than they did.

Finally, as I have said before Ivan Maugers words : If there was no Barry Briggs there would have been no Ivan Mauger. What he meant was to be World  Champion he had to study everything Briggs did and build on it, just as Olsen and later generations took Mauger  as their example and built on that, so it’s really a bit futile to put one against another from different eras. 

 

Great post ,   i thought it was great that Barry,Ivan,Ronnie got on very well you dont often get that when you are all going for the same goal.Briggs was a great racer not the greatest of styles i just wish i had seen him in the 65/70 period of his  BLRC dominance at the great Hyde Rd.

[steve roberts]

12 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Great post ,   i thought it was great that Barry,Ivan,Ronnie got on very well you dont often get that when you are all going for the same goal.Briggs was a great racer not the greatest of styles i just wish i had seen him in the 65/70 period of his  BLRC dominance at the great Hyde Rd.

I'm thankful that I saw all three race...albeit Ronnie during his last season but he was still a class act.

I'd agree with you regarding Briggo's rather blustering style whereas Ivan's was very smooth and technically perfect.

[Sidney the robin]

46 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I'm thankful that I saw all three race...albeit Ronnie during his last season but he was still a class act.

I'd agree with you regarding Briggo's rather blustering style whereas Ivan's was very smooth and technically perfect.

Mauger and Olsen for me technically were the best riders i have ever seen Leigh Adams also comes into that category to.Mauger had everything really a great gater could come from the back and his temperment was superb.He also was a great team man just so pleased that i see him at his peak he would of loved the GP series format from 68/79 he would of took some beating.Over that period i think only Olsen, Michanek 73/74. Collins 76 Lee 79 would of got near him a true superstar in my eyes.

[FAST GATER]

Mauger

Briggo/Fundin

Olsen/Ricko

Mauger gets top place  IMO he  changed the sport from many points of view making it more professional and setting  high standards with consistent performances at team level particularly  day in day out.    For sheer style and skill on a bike he was a dream to watch ( Hans is the nearest I ever saw to match him on a bike IMO ) but with all the above there is very little to choose between them and there is the issue of different eras of course  .

I do think out  of five of them Ivan could and would have succeeded at anytime in speedway because he was able to adapt to any situation  ,the only time I can remamber him capitulating under pressure was of course the 1973 w/final ,the one that did get away from him without a doubt .

 

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, FAST GATER said:

Mauger

Briggo/Fundin

Olsen/Ricko

Mauger gets top place  IMO he  changed the sport from many points of view making it more professional and setting  high standards with consistent performances at team level particularly  day in day out.    For sheer style and skill on a bike he was a dream to watch ( Hans is the nearest I ever saw to match him on a bike IMO ) but with all the above there is very little to choose between them and there is the issue of different eras of course  .

I do think out  of five of them Ivan could and would have succeeded at anytime in speedway because he was able to adapt to any situation  ,the only time I can remamber him capitulating under pressure was of course the 1973 w/final ,the one that did get away from him without a doubt .

 

My theory Gater is great riders would of adapted to any era Mauger was 20 years ahead of his time in my view.Immaculate aquipment a top of the range van when he turned up for a meeting he was 100 per cent focused on doing his best he took speedway away from the memory  of riders turning up only having one bike strapped on the back of there car.

[norbold]

16 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

My theory Gater is great riders would of adapted to any era Mauger was 20 years ahead of his time in my view.Immaculate aquipment a top of the range van when he turned up for a meeting he was 100 per cent focused on doing his best he took speedway away from the memory  of riders turning up only having one bike strapped on the back of there car.

Ove Fundin once told me he thought that Ivan Mauger was responsible for taking all the fun out of speedway!

Edited December 23, 2017 by norbold

[E I Addio]

Just now, norbold said:

Ovew Fundin once told me he thought that Ivan Mauger was responsible for taking all the fun out of speedway!

There are quite a few riders who didn't exactly think it was a bundle of laughs riding on the same track as Fundin !

[Sidney the robin]

2 minutes ago, norbold said:

Ove Fundin once told me he thought that Ivan Mauger was responsible for taking all the fun out of speedway!

Maybe you  are right norbold even today winning is everything for me it is all about being entertained the winning aspect means nothing to me.In yesteryear you often had riders who were at clubs for a number of years and the fans could relate to those riders.As examples Eric Boocock,Arnie Haley,Reg Wilson, Mike Broadbanks, Pete Smith, Nigel Boocock Terry Betts ,wouldn't it be great if that was happening in British speedway today instead of riders changing clubs every year.

[FAST GATER]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

My theory Gater is great riders would of adapted to any era Mauger was 20 years ahead of his time in my view.Immaculate aquipment a top of the range van when he turned up for a meeting he was 100 per cent focused on doing his best he took speedway away from the memory  of riders turning up only having one bike strapped on the back of there car.

IMO he was the  biggest influence on the sport from any one  rider  he had it all and was the complete package ,no other rider has struck me like that although may have been exceptional riders in certain ways it was had to fault him in any department as it were.

[FAST GATER]

2 hours ago, norbold said:

Ove Fundin once told me he thought that Ivan Mauger was responsible for taking all the fun out of speedway!

It was always a pleasure for me to watch  a rider who performed at the highest  level  and made it look easy , he was making a living at one of the most dangerous sport in the world at the same time as well.

[Gavan]

To this day i still cant believe the conservative way Nielsen rode in the run off against Rickardsson in the 1994 run off. 

[Grachan]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

Ove Fundin once told me he thought that Ivan Mauger was responsible for taking all the fun out of speedway!

So, basically, only riders from Mauger onwards can really be considered for the greatest of all time as he upped the standard from what had gone before.

[foamfence]

8 minutes ago, Grachan said:

So, basically, only riders from Mauger onwards can really be considered for the greatest of all time as he upped the standard from what had gone before.

The only way to prove that, would be to transport him back to the days of Parker and Duggan, different tracks, different bikes etc. It can't be done so this isn't an exact science, whenever it starts and finishes.

[Grachan]

39 minutes ago, foamfence said:

The only way to prove that, would be to transport him back to the days of Parker and Duggan, different tracks, different bikes etc. It can't be done so this isn't an exact science, whenever it starts and finishes.

Possibly, but for me Fundin's comment says it all.

Put Mauger in any earlier area and, in my opinion, the same thing would have happened. He would have taken the sport to a new level and become dominant.

Greatest of all time, I reckon.

[E I Addio]

13 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Possibly, but for me Fundin's comment says it all.

Put Mauger in any earlier area and, in my opinion, the same thing would have happened. He would have taken the sport to a new level and become dominant.

Greatest of all time, I reckon.

What exactly was Mauger doing that Ronnie Moore wasn't doing in principle 10 years earlier and or that Tommy Price wasn't doing before Moore even arrived here ?