Who is the Greatest ?

[Sidney the robin]

Out of these five greats what order would you place them in ??? Mauger , Briggs, Fundin, Rickardsson, Olsen   my order would be.  1.Mauger. 2. Fundin. 3. Briggs 4. Olsen. 5.Rickardsson.

[steve roberts]

Hi Sid...no Nielsen? I'd have him above Rickardsson personally.

Based on your chosen list however it would be

Mauger (the greatest rider ever in my opinion whatever the criteria chosen), Briggs (longevity),  Fundin (winning titles during the era of the 'Big Five'), Olsen (despite a personal dislike of him but he had great leadership qualities) and Rickardsson (despite his six individual world titles but I was never convinced/impressed by his team ethic)

 I tend to base my views on overall achievements including their impact based on league achievements and individual input thereof.

Edited December 22, 2017 by steve roberts

[norbold]

Having lived through all their eras and seen them all I would say, 1. Fundin 2. Mauger 3. Briggs 4. Rickardsson 5. Olsen.

Though any one of them could beat all of the others and, of course, all of them trail in behind Tom Farndon!

[Sidney the robin]

58 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Hi Sid...no Nielsen? I'd have him above Rickardsson personally.

Based on your chosen list however it would be

Mauger (the greatest rider ever in my opinion whatever the criteria chosen), Briggs (longevity),  Fundin (winning titles during the era of the 'Big Five'), Olsen (despite a personal dislike of him but he had great leadership qualities) and Rickardsson (despite his six individual world titles but I was never convinced/impressed by his team ethic)

 I tend to base my views on overall achievements including their impact based on league achievements and individual input thereof.

I agree totally Steve, Nielsen and Jason Crump i would rate  above Ricko but his six titles had to have him in the list.

[Midland Red]

Back in June you posted a similar thread on here

My response, and I have no reason to change it, was:

Riders seen:

Mauger

Fundin

Briggs

Plechanov

Craven

[OveFundinFan]

I was "away" from speedway during the Rikardsson era, never saw him "live" so unfair to include him in my list, 

1 Fundin, 2 Mauger 3 Briggs 4 Olsen and because I did see him 5 Nielsen

Fundin because 1. Five world titles during the time when they were one-off meetings, 2. Ten years on the trot in the world top 3 (at the time they were one off meetings) 3. whilst Mauger was the true professional in terms of preparation, Fundin was the opposite, self proclaimed non mechanic, would ride anything - even the track spare - and win. 

 

[foamfence]

Mauger, Briggs, Rickardsson, Fundin, Olsen. 

I personally would have considered Craven and Moore but one had his career cut short and the other missed six seasons while in his prime.

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Hi Sid...no Nielsen? I'd have him above Rickardsson personally.

Based on your chosen list however it would be

Mauger (the greatest rider ever in my opinion whatever the criteria chosen), Briggs (longevity),  Fundin (winning titles during the era of the 'Big Five'), Olsen (despite a personal dislike of him but he had great leadership qualities) and Rickardsson (despite his six individual world titles but I was never convinced/impressed by his team ethic)

 I tend to base my views on overall achievements including their impact based on league achievements and individual input thereof.

Nielsen is a strange one. Probably the best rider I've ever seen - even better than Mauger. Yet my memories in World Finals tends to be of him over-riding and messing things up - even in some that he won! It depends how you see it. Nielsen was, in my opinion, a better rider than Rickardsson, but in terms of all time greatness you have to put Rickardsson above him because of his World Final achievements.

12 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Back in June you posted a similar thread on here

My response, and I have no reason to change it, was:

Riders seen:

Mauger

Fundin

Briggs

Plechanov

Craven

Plechanov, in particular, seems an unusual choice for one of the greatest of all time. Care to give reasons for his inclusions? He's not a rider I know much about.

[Sidney the robin]

12 minutes ago, foamfence said:

Mauger, Briggs, Rickardsson, Fundin, Olsen. 

I personally would have considered Craven and Moore but one had his career cut short and the other missed six seasons while in his prime.

I like that foamfence  Briggo in front of Ove !!!! i have been filling out a few programmes from the 50s and Ove see off Briggo quite alot the 60s was  alot closer.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[foamfence]

16 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I like that foamfence  Briggo in front of Ove !!!! i have been filling out a few programmes from the 50s and Ove see off Briggo quite alot the 60s was  alot closer.

From what I saw, Briggo was the better racer, in fact I would consider him the best racer on the list, I still remember him in the many League Riders Championships at Belle Vue and some impressive performances at Wembley, in both World Finals and World Cups.

[norbold]

9 minutes ago, foamfence said:

From what I saw, Briggo was the better racer, in fact I would consider him the best racer on the list, I still remember him in the many League Riders Championships at Belle Vue and some impressive performances at Wembley, in both World Finals and World Cups.

Having seen them both over many years, I can't agree with the idea that Briggo was a better racer than Fundin. They were equally determined to win at all costs and ruthless, so I don't think there is any difference on that score, but I do think Fundin actually had more control of his bike and had a more astute racing brain than Briggo and that was why, during the time they were both at the top of their game, Fundin had a superior record to Briggo's, both in terms of titles won and in head to head clashes.

[foamfence]

1 minute ago, norbold said:

Having seen them both over many years, I can't agree with the idea that Briggo was a better racer than Fundin. They were equally determined to win at all costs and ruthless, so I don't think there is any difference on that score, but I do think Fundin actually had more control of his bike and had a more astute racing brain than Briggo and that was why, during the time they were both at the top of their game, Fundin had a superior record to Briggo's, both in terms of titles won and in head to head clashes.

Statistics probably prove that but Briggo remained great in the Mauger era, which was (to me) more professional and with more world class riders, whereas Ove was long gone. It's difficult anyway to compare different eras, how can we compare Rickarsson to the others, when he didn't race them but did race different riders on different tracks.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I agree totally Steve, Nielsen and Jason Crump i would rate  above Ricko but his six titles had to have him in the list.

That's fair enough Sid if based upon the number of World Championships wins it's just my personal criteria is somewhat different.

[foamfence]

Personal recollections, opinions and preferences are rightly evident here, the list can never be set in stone. Interesting is that riders also have very different opinions, Briggo once said Brian Crutcher was probably the best rider he saw, when I asked Eric Boothroyd he replied instantly, Alan Hunt.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Grachan said:

Nielsen is a strange one. Probably the best rider I've ever seen - even better than Mauger. Yet my memories in World Finals tends to be of him over-riding and messing things up - even in some that he won! It depends how you see it. Nielsen was, in my opinion, a better rider than Rickardsson, but in terms of all time greatness you have to put Rickardsson above him because of his World Final achievements.

Plechanov, in particular, seems an unusual choice for one of the greatest of all time. Care to give reasons for his inclusions? He's not a rider I know much about.

It's true that Nielsen lost three run-offs but the fact that he was that close to achieving three more wins to add to his four tells me how dominant he was.

If the GPs had been run during the 80's in my view (as well as John Berry's) he would have dominated. Rickardssom obviously won five of his championships under the GP system which required quite a different approach but would he have been as successful under the old system? We can only conjecture...comparisons are difficult to evaluate in my view especially within different eras.

Edited December 22, 2017 by steve roberts

[The White Knight]

Mauger would have to be my number one choice, purely on his professionalism, Racing record and Wordl Championships.

Fundin would, on records alone be second on the list - I never saw him ride.

Briggo, my personal favourite, would be third (I would like to have put him first), but you cannot overlook the achievements of those above him.

Rickardsson would be fourth - again on his World Championship record.

Olsen last. Never my favourite Rider, in fact he was one of the ones I liked least. I can't deny he was a very fine Rider though certainly, to my mind, not in the very top class of Riders like the ones above him.

Honourable mention for Erik Gundersen who I personally rated higher than Olsen.

Edited December 22, 2017 by The White Knight
Missed words.

[Midland Red]

4 hours ago, Grachan said:

Nielsen is a strange one. Probably the best rider I've ever seen - even better than Mauger. Yet my memories in World Finals tends to be of him over-riding and messing things up - even in some that he won! It depends how you see it. Nielsen was, in my opinion, a better rider than Rickardsson, but in terms of all time greatness you have to put Rickardsson above him because of his World Final achievements.

Plechanov, in particular, seems an unusual choice for one of the greatest of all time. Care to give reasons for his inclusions? He's not a rider I know much about.

With fairly limited opportunities for experience, two silver medals and a fourth place in six World Final appearances was a fine achievement

Looking back, in some ways he was Gollobesque on track - in the days when Fundin, Briggs, Knutsson, etc were at their peak he stands up well to comparison

I'm very grateful to have seen him at the top of his game

[Sidney the robin]

Nielsen was a great rider and i was never a fan but he grew on me he had his disappointments but he got over them and got stronger mentally he was very good.Penhall,Lee,Sanders,Sigalos,Carter were on his wavelength  at the 81 / 83 period but  for whatever reason they fell by the wayside. Olsen whatever  you think of him is often overlooked he could match Mauger at times and a youthful Collins and later Lee and for me as a three time World Champion was a GREAT

[steve roberts]

14 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Nielsen was a great rider and i was never a fan but he grew on me he had his disappointments but he got over them and got stronger mentally he was very good.Penhall,Lee,Sanders,Sigalos,Carter were on his wavelength  at the 81 / 83 period but  for whatever reason they fell by the wayside. Olsen whatever  you think of him is often overlooked he could match Mauger at times and a youthful Collins and later Lee and for me as a three time World Champion was a GREAT

...Olsen developed a style of riding in straight lines as much as possible without too much going sidewards. Bit like Dave Jessup I suppose.

[fatface]

Tony Rickardsson for me. None bar Mauger has a World Championship record to rival it and I rate his all-round abilities as better than Mauger. He could do the lot. From the front or the back, on small tracks, big tracks, under pressure and was ultra professional. The others have now enjoyed decades and decades as legends and I think - in all sports - that can sometimes subconsciously elevate them above modern day greats. Tony Rickardsson was a true great in every sense of the word and also during an era than was not short of a few other absolute all-timers too. As for the suggestion that Jason Crump was better? Even Crump himself would disagree with that, he knew he was no2 whilst Rickardsson was around.