So where did it all go wrong?

[Baldyman]

A load of us at ipswich are trying to drag it forward with our loud obnoxious supporting...not sure all the oldies dislike it..but one did complian we were too noisy and putting her off her knitting.  

I asked my other half's 14 year old if he wanted to come to a match once....he said...nah its full of old people...and boring.   Also....why do you go..you are far to cool for that.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Baldyman

[Star Lady]

1 hour ago, SCB said:

Exactly, because the sport is promoted to your nan. They play music for you nan. They interview dull ex-riders with no charisma from your nans era, the presenter is the same age as your nan and they incentive your nan to attend by letting her in for less.

But if you dare suggest these thing are wrong you may are treated as if you have just said, “all old people should be rounded up and shot”.

They do nothing for young people but you suggest this has to change and the old people come out with their pitch forks. They’re being selfish, the sport is going to die with them but they don’t care because obviously they’ll be dead so why would they care that the sport doesn’t exist in the U.K. any more when they’re gone?

Cue more pitch forks because I’ve dared to suggest again that old people is not a good target audience. Other than Saga what company targets old people? Speedway does it, speedway obviously knows best.

I'm an oldie but cannot fault your argument above.

 

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, SCB said:

Exactly, because the sport is promoted to your nan. They play music for you nan. They interview dull ex-riders with no charisma from your nans era, the presenter is the same age as your nan and they incentive your nan to attend by letting her in for less.

But if you dare suggest these thing are wrong you may are treated as if you have just said, “all old people should be rounded up and shot”.

They do nothing for young people but you suggest this has to change and the old people come out with their pitch forks. They’re being selfish, the sport is going to die with them but they don’t care because obviously they’ll be dead so why would they care that the sport doesn’t exist in the U.K. any more when they’re gone?

Cue more pitch forks because I’ve dared to suggest again that old people is not a good target audience. Other than Saga what company targets old people? Speedway does it, speedway obviously knows best.

I think my problem is that you don't go to meetings so don't have a clue what the music is like, what the interviews are like or what the presentation is like. 

How can you come to an informed opinion about what goes on at speedway meetings if you are never there ? 

I'd say your view is ignorant, out of date and mostly inaccurate.

It is nonsense to suggest that speedway's target audience are those of pensionable age. A concessionary rate applies right across the leisure industry - from stately homes to bowling alleys, from cinemas to sport. I think there is a genuine case to suggest that that should be reviewed but to imply that speedway does those of pensionable age a special favour because that is its targeted audience is rubbish.  

I am unaware of a speedway track that does not offer a concessionary rate to children and many offer family tickets at discounted rate. Isle of Wight, for example, allow under 16's in free and deliberately have attractions in addition to the speedway for them.  Their focus - and they are most certainly not alone - is on children and families.

Craig Cook's night at NSS on Wednesday was attended by those of all ages. We had a top class compere in Natalie Quirk, excellent recordings and funny, personable and honest (occasionally brutally so) answers from Cookie. It was a sell out (albeit that it was free).  Further, I can remember Arthur Browning bringing the house down at Scunny a couple of years ago when being interviewed by Rob Godfrey (no slouch in being drolly funny himself).

Some of the presentation (Birmingham springs to mind, and in an awful coincidence when I was at Leicester they had Peter York) is awful. Some of the music equally so (Plymouth certainly used to be terrible). But to suggest that they are all - or even the majority - like that is simply untrue. Belle Vue, in particular, have hit high standards for entertainment and professionalism.

My view is that speedway does need to attract a younger audience but, at the same time, it needs to keep its current fan base very much on board. In my experience, most of those I know who are of pensionable age share that view and embrace change, not violently resist it.

 

.

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[orion]

it's been pretty simple each year the standard has dropped so have the  crowds ...sadly you still have high % of fans ( lets have 7 local lads in the side who will wave to crowd ) who still fail to  see this and  think by getting rid of the top riders and having a weaker product it  will  somehow l bring back the  crowds back and save speedway . 

As long as mind set stays that way then speedway will die .

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, Baldyman said:

A load of us at ipswich are trying to drag it forward with our loud obnoxious supporting...not sure all the oldies dislike it..but one did complian we were too noisy and putting her off her knitting.  

I asked my other half's 14 year old if he wanted to come to a match once....he said...nah its full of old people...and boring.   Also....why do you go..you are far to cool for that.

I have only sat with you once but you were brilliant. My mate from Mildenhall who attends Ipswich who is a pensioner shares that view. 

Speedway's problem isn't that targets old people, but that they are the majority of its support (and by old people I mean those over 40, not those over 70).

It has to find a way to attract younger fans without alienating its current fan base. 

[Baldyman]

It's a hard task getting the youngsters in though, if they are just not interested at all. There is obviously a stigma that needs to be lost before youngsters at least think about giving it a go.    

 

[Halifaxtiger]

4 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

It's a hard task getting the youngsters in though, if they are just not interested at all. There is obviously a stigma that needs to be lost before youngsters at least think about giving it a go.    

 

You're dead right and I think it is more a problem with those in their teenage years and slightly beyond rather than the young children. 

You'd think that a sport that has racing on bikes without brakes that do 0-60 in 3 seconds would be attractive..................

 

[Baldyman]

It probably would be more attractive if other things went on as well.  These teenagers are the play station generation and smart phone generation.  They are used to everything being there instantly at a touch of a button and hit reset if they don't like it. A speedway meeting is a drawn out borefest for most of the 2 and a bit hours you are there.  

 

Maybe they should take a group of youngsters..and ask them how to improve an evening at the speedway and what would make them want to  up. Like some sort of focus group.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Baldyman

[Halifaxtiger]

1 minute ago, Baldyman said:

It probably would be more attractive if other things went on as well.  These teenagers are the play station generation and smart phone generation.  They are used to everything being there instantly at a touch of a button and hit reset if they don't like it. A speedway meeting is a drawn out borefest for most of the 2 and a bit hours you are there.  

 

Maybe they should take a group of youngsters..and ask them how to improve an evening at the speedway and what would make them up. Like some sort of focus group.

I hate to say this but..................Isle of Wight do that 

[Baldyman]

Do they?? I didn't know that....and how is that working?? If they can't think of what would enhance their chances of attending..then a few old duffers don't stand a chance.

[Halifaxtiger]

They target youth groups, schools, scout and guide troops and let them into a meeting for free. They then ask them what they think of it and how it can be improved.

[Baldyman]

Well I think that's something all clubs should take on...and the best ideas implemented across the country..

[Gresham]

Fans and riders not singing off the same hymn sheet.

Fans want teams...Riders want to be 'Individuals'

Fans want continuity...not team changes every season.

Costs to run the sport too high...riders wages, maintenance, track prep etc

Facilities poor compared to other sports of similar entrance fee.

Overpriced and poor quality food and beverages.

Way too many rain offs. Never found a way to run a meeting in the rain or facilitate covers.

Poor standard of entertainment before and between heats.

Ever increasing priority on having to make the start.

Not enough passing or strung out races. Ok in the past, but far more entertainment choices out there for the public these days.

Bikes not compatible with many British tracks.

Has become sanitised...sound, smell and sight all less than before.

Viewing the 'action' in the pits should be visable to all fans.

BSPA run like an amateur organisation. Should have a independent body.

Riders and Promoters delusional...trying to run and impersonate a high end motorcycle sport, on a garden shed income.

Speedway should have gone 'standardised' many years ago...instead of letting costs spiral on the never ending pursuit by riders to create a faster bike to the point of breaking.

[Gismo]

2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

You're dead right and I think it is more a problem with those in their teenage years and slightly beyond rather than the young children. 

You'd think that a sport that has racing on bikes without brakes that do 0-60 in 3 seconds would be attractive..................

 

With having kids myself you would think so, not so when it can take 2 hours plus to complete a meeting, the attractiveness soon diminishes. Like my 13 year old daughter says "If I wanted to see tractors going round in circles, then why not go to the local farm".

Kids nowadays are brought up with the internet, instant information and streaming. Its not only speedway that has an issue with attracting the younger generation, football also has the same problem. Football clubs are only now starting to address this issue, football clubs are now offering discounted match day and season tickets to young adults, this is varied in age  from the clubs, some, its 21 year old, some even have it have 24 year old's as a young adult.

Football clubs also offer exceptional savings on season tickets, most clubs you would have to miss 4-6 matches before your out of pocket, they also reward loyal supporters with the best deal.

An example, Huddersfield town promoted to the premier league. Adult season ticket £199, 8-17 year old's £79 and £29 for under 8 year old's and if you had been a season ticket holder for the last 9 years, then you paid £100. Huddersfield having been running these promotional season tickets for 2 years now, the 2015/16 season they averaged 12,000 per match roughly, in 2016/17 they were averaging 21,000 roughly, so far this season they are averaging 24,000. True, they got promoted and have been doing well lately but still they have seen season ticket numbers treble without knowing their success.

Where speedway lets fans down, in my eyes, they treat their fans with contempt. If a meeting is cancelled before a wheel turns, you are entitled to a full refund, even up to 48 hours before the re-staged meeting you are still entitled to a full refund, failing to do so, is illegal. If you have a ticket for an event, it will state, time,date and venue, if the event is cancelled the contract is then void and a full refund must be issued on request. If the event is abandoned, this does not apply and its down to the discretion of the organisers if full or partial refunds are issued. You then have a meeting between Peterboro and Workington with a 3.00pm start, this is put back to a 5.00pm start to allow track preparation, then 48 hours before the meeting, a team member is sacked with a replacement being named and the meeting is put back another 2 hours to 7.00pm start. Now, if a football club had put back there match to allow one of their players enough time to return from international duty so they could be in the starting line up, there would be up roar, fines and point deductions would follow from the FA.

I have watched many live sport events over the years, football, rugby, boxing, cricket, athletics, F1, Le-mans etc etc. but watching a heat of speedway seriously takes some beating, but the way its being run, it has got me beat.

 

 

[martinmauger]

This ^^^ (again), wouldn't take huge investment i.e. mostly none, to achieve most.  Nail really getting hit on the head at the moment....

[The Doctor...]

On 16/12/2017 at 9:25 PM, RobMcCaffery said:

That is downright offensive. Perhaps if instead of your ignorant ageism we have someone post some equally obnoxious homophobia and see how you like it.

Comments like that destroy any respect for the rest of your occasionally intelligent comments. Just because you post in detail and some are taken in by it all doesn't mean you're in the right. 

I've worked damn hard for speedway in my time and it would be good to think that I could still go to speedway without facing obnoxious comments from yourself about people in my age group. 

Anyway, hopefully I'll be dead soon, eh?  Uteerly disgusting. We should cater for all not just overgrown children like you. 

Just checking my facts before i respond in the morning Rob as i'm a tad ethanolic right now ,  but you're also the bus spotter  / photographer Rob McCaffery yes ?  

Perhaps you can post the "obnoxious homophobia"  styled post you've obviously thought about as you've chosen not to look at the post here,  but you've actually looked at the poster himself ?  Otherwise why bring bring homophobia into the subject ? 

Much like your posts when a family member died, this is pretty bad in my opinion.

I will say, Scb is no chum of mine  - to me as a Reading fan, he will always be Newport... and we hated Newport.. 

Anyway.

Tom

[Pinny]

This rob mac has always been a moaning old knob to be honest. 

 

[barrybishop]

On 16/12/2017 at 7:50 AM, mikebv said:

1. Marketing/Hype. - No marketing of the Sport nationally yet millions paid out to riders who patently didn't maintain the crowds interest or numbers.

Look what Barry Hearn has done with darts? Look at how the PDC is marketed v the 'other' organisation the BDO?

Its the same game! But that is where the similarity ends. Hearn marketed the Sport, and the players incrementally earned more as the Sport grew organically. He didnt pay out huge money before he had it coming in!  In 1993 the Winner of the World Title earned £64k. This time he will get £440k..

One is loud, brash, colourful and very, very succesful. The other tries to match it (badly) and tries to be all things to all men from grass roots to World Champions.. British Speedway is the BDO to Poland's PDC, stuck in a time warp of a by-gone era which has no linkage to today's society..

2. Attendances - Not spotting that an ever growing older demographic was your only dwindling customer base. (Just like Woolworths, and we know how that went). And even if they did spot it, doing absolutely nothing nationally as a colllective about it (see point one)...

3. Credibilty. - planning fixtures to suit riders needs rather than the requirements of the fans. Resulting in disjointed schedules,  and a plethora of 'Mickey Mouse' meetings, full of guests, which render the whole competition a waste of time and loses any emotional involvement a fan should have following 'their team'. And if a competition is a 'waste of time with no credibilty', simply "why go to watch it?"

4. Admission Costs. - Maybe due to costs they cannot be lower? But quite simply, you will not attract a regular crowd every week/fortnight/tri-weekly/every fourth Wednesday if the dogs isn't on and we can get Greg over (delete as applicable). There has to be a way of reducing entrance fees. We who are left are used to paying inflation busting admission fees, now circa £18, but any newbies (which the Sport so desperately needs) will be very reluctant to dip their toe in the Speedway water at those prices. Remember,  most won't have a clue about the Sport other than via TV or YouTube. Forking out £50 or so for a family not knowing beforehand if they will enjoy it or not is a big ask I would suggest. And one not too many will take..

5. Integrity - Far too many rules and regulations mean the more switched on will invariably find loopholes to gain an advantage. All this does is frustrate fans of other clubs who either follow the rules honestly (or maybe are not savvy enough to do the same?). Assessed averages based on performances from previous years?  He can ride in that division on an 8.00 average/But Him on a 6.50 cannot? He is Swedish, but blonde, but also left handed, so is a 5.00 not a 6.00?  etc etc just paints the Sport as an insular nonsense. Self policing is often no policing and as long as those who make decisions have a vested interest in that particular decision, there will always be suspicions of things being contrived and manipulated.  Not a great way to encourage fans to 'buy in' to your Sport with emotion (and cash)..

6. It's Not Just The Speedway - As years go by and times change, people want more from a night out. Except in Speedway where the policy seems to be 'if it was good enough for Great Uncle Jack, it's good enough for them today'! Many it appears, simply opens the gates and expect thousands to flock in. It's the same tired old routine at so many tracks with absolutely zero extra to enhance the evenings experience. People want more bang for their buck these days! Speedway's well meaning amateurs unfortunately are not equipped with the relevant skill set to deliver it..

In Summary TMC. For me there are far too many self inflicted wounds compounded by a complete lack of vision and adaptability over the years to turn the Sport around.

It is crying out for modern thinking, dynamic and clear leadership from someone who understands marketing and customer needs and wants.

Always struck me as odd that as 'Rome has burned around them' the 'Nero's' who have run the Sport have paid over the past 20 years literally tens and tens of millions out to riders, who by their presence havent even maintained crowd levels never mind increased them,  yet haven't paid a penny to any professional marketing company who maybe could have hyped the Sport enough to get it on the wider community radar...  

An incredible business plan..

 

 

Hi everyone,

 

This is a very interesting thread to read and a great post here, although of course I wish that I wasn’t reading it.  Anyways, these are very useful when I am doing research into speedway and the general feedback about it. It is clear that there is a lot of frustration out there and I know this thread is dedicated to trying to identify what has gone wrong as opposed to the all the successes it has too.

If I look at the points and how it affects my own club (when I write my, me or I, I always mean Martin Widman and myself) there are some very interesting comparisons.... For example, I completely agree about the darts - we watched it on the box last night and I said to my Lisa, how on earth did darts get so good - what took it up to this level and why isn't it possible with speedway. Of course, we all know that it is possible to do it with speedway - we try to put on as much "quality" razzmatazz as possible on race night, the build-up, and all our social events because speedway is no longer just about speedway. However, in my view, the main difference about darts and speedway is anyone can nip down the pub, pick up some arrows and throw them, you can’t for speedway and that the darts we see on the box is the elite players in a conference centre packed with fans, PLUS one-time attenders who are there for the social and fun factor and not just the darts. What we do not see is the regular dart league games. So that is a huge difference – what we are saying is that we want our league matches to have the fun packed adventure of, for example the PDC darts scene, and this is something on the Island we strive to do each week – so aim high.

But, there is more… I can play darts easily but I cannot ride a speedway bike easily can I?.... uhhh well actually you can. Come to My First Skid on the island for example (or one of the other great schools across the country). Why have I added this bit…... well because I can prove that people who know nothing about speedway will come to our speedway school with little Johnny or Evie and try riding a speedway / twist and shoot bike (we even have a bike with stabilizers on). Then when they have tried it and realise that they have signed up their baby to ride a bike without brakes and watch some of the more advance riders a flying around their interest is caught... and this has been a big success on the island for us. I cannot begin to tell you, but I would suspect it has put at least 20 families on our gate each week over last year.

Attendances.... our attendances last year increased for every meeting bar one... but it was hard work to achieve this.. My First Skid, shows, schools, scouts, you name it we went there. We held a free meeting too which attracted a lot of people but our core focus is on making speedway part of a bigger show that involves kids, rider interaction, fun, up to date music, slick presentation, and for us, this has really worked. While of course we value massively our senior supporters, for example the nice story about Ann Barrett, but at the same time we focus on tomorrow's support too and what makes them want to come to speedway. The truth of this in my view is 2 fold... one they need to feel valued, be entertained, follow a team and receive value for money. (I am not sure I agree with what is the right price to admit someone to speedway thought - but I do know that what you charge for entry must reflect what the person receives. This actually applies to everything – if you received a Micky D’s burger in a Michelin 5 star restaurant you would have cause for disappointment – yet both at the right price offer value to their customer. In other words, if someone leaves and thinks to themselves, that was awful, I didn’t get value, they will not return) and secondly, community.... we now have groups of kids running around the stadium of different ages, going to different schools, from across the Island and the first time I saw this I thought "yes.... that's it". Because I know as a child attending speedway I had different friends there compared to sea cadets, or school... and the truth is I still do.

Fixtures... without doubt for us, we run every week and we are expected to run every week and this is vital, in our view, to the clubs success.

Admission - we do offer lots of offers for free entry to newbies... but this comes at a “cost” to them. We would like them to give us feedback and to tell us their thoughts. This was another area where we won lots of new fans over the last two years.

Integrity.... agree totally. However, I am not sure how we ensure it as I am sure that rule manipulation has always happened. The difference of today vice yesterday is social media and the ability for anyone to find a problem and declare it to the world - I am not suggesting this is wrong of course... it is just very different to how things were, and the sport needs to adapt to this accordingly.

Correct it’s not just speedway - it is a fun family night out....  or as we say a fun packed family adventure.  We want to entertain from entry to exit and this includes up to 10 mascots out on track for 30 minutes prior to the meeting, open pits, centre green visits, rider interaction, kids cycle race, me getting on a loudhailer when we were losing... and what is interesting for me last year when we had such a tough season not one person said to me - "Barry sort this out", they said, "thanks for another great night loved it.. we will win next week...." (I try to say goodbye to everyone after the meeting).

A business plan and a vision... you know when we looked at bringing speedway back we needed a business plan, we still use it, it is a vital part of our daily life, but it also enables us to look at what worked, what cost what, and so on... but all this is encompassed by a vision and when you have a vision you need your sponsors to share this with you (otherwise why would they invest in you and your club), and you need your fans to not only share it but help you achieve it and you need to prove it. When you prove it tell the world about it.

We made a promise to never charge for kids 16 and under and we will not (but interestingly I know have people writing to me to offer to buy kids tickets to social events - we never charge for them and they say we know, we want to just help... amazing hey?). Our second promise was to find riders from the island and we do this through My First Skid and we will enter the SDL league with the Wightlink Wizards with a team of students from the school.

Finally, I view you coming to watch the Warriors, Wizards or attending a My First Skid session as though you are coming to visit my house. I would be totally gutted if you didn’t have a great time, it’s personal to me, you have actually invested in our club by coming and that is important. Of course we can never get everything right, but we do listen and we do read lots of information on forums and social media, as well as asking our fans for their feedback on how we perform. We never lose sight the we are not millionaires and without a healthy sponsorship and fan base there could not be speedway on the island which is why we put every effort we can to make it succeed.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback on here about your views, we appreciate it..... if I could make one request as a promoter, fan, ex-rider, school instructor... is try and match your concern with positivity too because there are lots of it... if we all collectively talk our sport down, it will only go down, nothing will be able to bring it back up, but if we focus on our positives, while working on our concerns we can return our sport to the level it should be at. I know this works.. when kids come through the school… everyone cheers them for their first ride, they are my superstar every time they go out, we educate, we are disciplined but we have the most fun and you know what…. They come back… but you knew I would write that didn’t you. Positivity does work, trust me.

 

Thanks again and I hope to see you trackside in 2018. If you come to the island grab me for a chat I am always in yellow and blue, probably with kids all around me as I look like Mr Tumble, or screaming with the fans. 

Have a wonderful Christmas and New Year, and thanks again for supporting your club wherever that may be.

[barrybishop]

On 16/12/2017 at 1:41 PM, Gemini said:

 I can't help thinking as most holiday makers are only there for a week the family wouldn't be back for the next meeting anyway so they have had a nice free evening out.  Good idea for other tracks though.

Actually thats not the case.... when we give tickets away we do it via their name on the gate, on the supply of an email/telephone number (in most cases). However, the way we do it, is there is no mention of any ticket possibility until we understand where they come from... Normally people plonk their kids on a bike or senior people say "I used to love the speedway" it is the ice breaker we need to find out where they are from. However, having said that, if someone was on holiday and I thought I could help them out, why not. Actually this was indeed the case at My First Skid where the Elliott family were on holiday and they wanted their nipper, Leon, to try speedway. The school was full but some how I found a way to get them in... .they loved it.... If you care to take a look a Iwades pages you will see this lad now has his own bike, and has progressed massively in a very short space of time... Had I not been accomodating or valued their request, probably speedway would have lost a potential rider of the future 

Finally regards our tickets... I can throw away many tickets and it doesnt actually do anything for me..... but what does, is the follow up. Understanding why they came, why the will or will not come back, even thanking them for making use of the free ticket I gave them... and it worked. Not 100 percent for sure... but every entry was taken, they will have gone to the bar, food outlet, retail store perhaps, and in general the positivity we gained was worth the invetment.

[barrybishop]

15 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Not even on Community Service.

We actually employed community service (you have to pay to have them unless you are a public building) and I was amazed that of the 20 or so lads that came to help us tidy Smallbrook none had been to and most had not heard of the sport. After we explained it to them, showed them a bike... they were really interested to come pay us a visit and I know of at least one who is now a regular. True story that...