So where did it all go wrong?

[Halifaxtiger]

6 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

, the sport has become a individual rider sport that is focussed and directed at the riders and the fans seem like an after thought but are expected to pay for the privilege , 

Totally agree and the importance of this cannot be overstated.

In which business do the needs and requirements of paid employees come before paying customers ? 

[PHILIPRISING]

14 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Totally agree and the importance of this cannot be overstated.

In which business do the needs and requirements of paid employees come before paying customers ? 

FOOTBALL

[SCB]

OK. So number 1 is NOT, absolutely NOT to promote the sport. That will just get more people in short term to see a rubbish show and never return. If your restaurant was giving everyone food poisoning would you solution be to put a full page advert in the local paper or would it be to clean up your restaurant, get good feed back and THEN advertise in the local paper? So please, don't advertise just yet.

I honestly don't think the sport is as broke as some people would have you believe. I say that as someone who has probably only attended as many meetings since August 2011 as I attended in each season from about 2003 when I learnt to drive until August 2011. It doesn't need all out changes, it doesn't need a totally new sport. 4 riders doing 4 laps 15 times is damn exciting and I'll sell that concept to anyone and argue how great it is with anyone. Even on the most dull of tracks it's a wonderous spectacle, on the right tracks it's not possible to beat it in any other sport IMO.

 

So, my 6 things.
1. Stop the corruption and ignorance of the rule book. This idea that it needs re-writing is wrong, the actual rule book itself is only about 8-10 long from memory (tech spec and people jobs specs just don't matter to any fan). Just make sure what rules we have are adhered to consistently and with fairness. That means employing someone full time on 25-30k a year to make sure that is the case. It's not a lot of money shared between the 30-ish speedway teams in the UK right now.

2. It's 2018 this coming season. Not 1975. ARGH! Seriously. Do away with the "Smashy & Nicey" presentation duo, do away with the granddad jokes and borderline racists comments from the announcers because it was funny when they were a lad in the 60. Play some music that actually fits with the night, that probably means paying £1-200 a night for a proper DJ with a planned set list for when certain events take place. Not 60-year old John pressing play on the newest edition of his "hit of the 60s" CD regardless.

3. Stop pandering to old people. They're going to die soon. Letting them in cheap to clutter the place up with their flasks and fold up chairs is hardly going to entice a group of young lads along is it? Plus Maud, Joan and Derek who have sat on the 3rd bend the last 50 years are unlikely to add much to the atmosphere are they? They're not going to be jumping up and down when the team get a 5-1, they seem to politely clap ever result regardless of if it home or away.

4. Build rivalries, slag each other off in the press. Get a bit of agro going. This idea that speedway has to be "nice" and you have to clap the away riders after a race win is sickly. You don't get it in any other sport. How great is it when Nicki Pedersen turns up and you spend the night booing him? Soap operas have bad guys as well as good because people enjoy seeing them fail and speedway should be the same. More bag guys.

5. The score. What is the score? No bugger knows. There no scoreboard at most tracks and some of them that have them are a waste of time showing wrong numbers (you used to have to translate have the numbers at Brandon while Swindons is too small to show the info needed without it rotating) and you can't hear the score when it is read out  because the PA system is crap. There should be a huge drive to get all fans to download the BSPA app. This app lets you select push notifactions for a meeting of you choice so the current score is sent to you after each heat 10-15 seconds after its been announced. You currently have to fill in a programme and people do that rather than cheer and celebrate. Also clubs should have a decent scoreboard with 5 rows able to fit. Row 1 is the current score and the next 4 rows is the result of the last heat.

6. Stop postponing meetings. Especially once they have started. Is it any wonder fans don't turn up when the weather looks a little dodgy. The first sign of rain and the meeting is off and the fans are short changed, again. This never used to happen. Even worse when you see a great race with passing in the rain and they refuse to run the next heat.

 

TRs, R/R, guests, averages etc I don't think they really matter. People don't care what the rules are, they just want to be able to understand the rules that do exist.

Edited December 16, 2017 by SCB

[SCB]

1 minute ago, PHILIPRISING said:

FOOTBALL

Luckily football has millions of customers and is selling out stadiums, it can treat the fans however it likes.

[Grand Central]

I was going to respond myself.

But it would be superfluous after reading SCBs post.

I do not think I have seen a better critique.

Brilliant.

[RobMcCaffery]

2 hours ago, SCB said:

 

3. Stop pandering to old people. They're going to die soon. Letting them in cheap to clutter the place up with their flasks and fold up chairs is hardly going to entice a group of young lads along is it?

 

That is downright offensive. Perhaps if instead of your ignorant ageism we have someone post some equally obnoxious homophobia and see how you like it.

Comments like that destroy any respect for the rest of your occasionally intelligent comments. Just because you post in detail and some are taken in by it all doesn't mean you're in the right. 

I've worked damn hard for speedway in my time and it would be good to think that I could still go to speedway without facing obnoxious comments from yourself about people in my age group. 

Anyway, hopefully I'll be dead soon, eh?  Uteerly disgusting. We should cater for all not just overgrown children like you. 

[arnieg]

One thing I'd add to SCB's excellent post is team identity's need to be reestablished. For example team building rules that encourage tracks to retain more of the previous season's riders would be a start.

[RobMcCaffery]

It is fascinating to note that offensive comments by scb can be considered part of an "excellent post". Whatever sense he might make in his other points is devalued by his ignorant use of ageism.

People have a right to enjoy speedway irrespective of race, gender, sexual orientation or AGE. Yes the sport needs a younger age group following it but is that really to be achieved by sneering at the elderly who do attend meetings?

Where do we stop in SCB's nasty little world, an age limit on attendance and proof required of being under what arbitrary age limit he considers 'old'? 

I have to admit though that he is in fact doing me a favour, along with other posters of his nature. For a few years it hasn't been possible for me to attend more than a handful of meetings. Thankfully my circumstances have changed and with it came the joy of being able to start going to meetings regularly again. Then I read things like "Don't worry about the old, they'll die soon" make me realise that I have other interests to spend my time and cash on. After 46 years I'll make that one less oldie to be despised and sneered at in future. 

[JmeRay]

3 hours ago, SCB said:

OK. So number 1 is NOT, absolutely NOT to promote the sport. That will just get more people in short term to see a rubbish show and never return. If your restaurant was giving everyone food poisoning would you solution be to put a full page advert in the local paper or would it be to clean up your restaurant, get good feed back and THEN advertise in the local paper? So please, don't advertise just yet.

I honestly don't think the sport is as broke as some people would have you believe. I say that as someone who has probably only attended as many meetings since August 2011 as I attended in each season from about 2003 when I learnt to drive until August 2011. It doesn't need all out changes, it doesn't need a totally new sport. 4 riders doing 4 laps 15 times is damn exciting and I'll sell that concept to anyone and argue how great it is with anyone. Even on the most dull of tracks it's a wonderous spectacle, on the right tracks it's not possible to beat it in any other sport IMO.

 

So, my 6 things.
1. Stop the corruption and ignorance of the rule book. This idea that it needs re-writing is wrong, the actual rule book itself is only about 8-10 long from memory (tech spec and people jobs specs just don't matter to any fan). Just make sure what rules we have are adhered to consistently and with fairness. That means employing someone full time on 25-30k a year to make sure that is the case. It's not a lot of money shared between the 30-ish speedway teams in the UK right now.

2. It's 2018 this coming season. Not 1975. ARGH! Seriously. Do away with the "Smashy & Nicey" presentation duo, do away with the granddad jokes and borderline racists comments from the announcers because it was funny when they were a lad in the 60. Play some music that actually fits with the night, that probably means paying £1-200 a night for a proper DJ with a planned set list for when certain events take place. Not 60-year old John pressing play on the newest edition of his "hit of the 60s" CD regardless.

3. Stop pandering to old people. They're going to die soon. Letting them in cheap to clutter the place up with their flasks and fold up chairs is hardly going to entice a group of young lads along is it? Plus Maud, Joan and Derek who have sat on the 3rd bend the last 50 years are unlikely to add much to the atmosphere are they? They're not going to be jumping up and down when the team get a 5-1, they seem to politely clap ever result regardless of if it home or away.

4. Build rivalries, slag each other off in the press. Get a bit of agro going. This idea that speedway has to be "nice" and you have to clap the away riders after a race win is sickly. You don't get it in any other sport. How great is it when Nicki Pedersen turns up and you spend the night booing him? Soap operas have bad guys as well as good because people enjoy seeing them fail and speedway should be the same. More bag guys.

5. The score. What is the score? No bugger knows. There no scoreboard at most tracks and some of them that have them are a waste of time showing wrong numbers (you used to have to translate have the numbers at Brandon while Swindons is too small to show the info needed without it rotating) and you can't hear the score when it is read out  because the PA system is crap. There should be a huge drive to get all fans to download the BSPA app. This app lets you select push notifactions for a meeting of you choice so the current score is sent to you after each heat 10-15 seconds after its been announced. You currently have to fill in a programme and people do that rather than cheer and celebrate. Also clubs should have a decent scoreboard with 5 rows able to fit. Row 1 is the current score and the next 4 rows is the result of the last heat.

6. Stop postponing meetings. Especially once they have started. Is it any wonder fans don't turn up when the weather looks a little dodgy. The first sign of rain and the meeting is off and the fans are short changed, again. This never used to happen. Even worse when you see a great race with passing in the rain and they refuse to run the next heat.

 

TRs, R/R, guests, averages etc I don't think they really matter. People don't care what the rules are, they just want to be able to understand the rules that do exist.

Some good points but point three is way over the top. 

[SCB]

1 hour ago, arnieg said:

One thing I'd add to SCB's excellent post is team identity's need to be reestablished. For example team building rules that encourage tracks to retain more of the previous season's riders would be a start.

I only had 6 points so kept to generic things. I’d also like a rule that said every returning rider had an x% discount on their average each season. 3% a year. Maybe not a huge amount in year 1 but by year 3 that’s quite a bit, someone like Freddie Lindgren had he not missed a season would be on a 39% reduction now.

 

regarding my old people comments, maybe they were a bit harsh but they’re not untrue are they? Why try and keep old people who will die, statistically in the next 10 years? And you’re not going to attract young people while you insentivise old people. I honestly think the best thing for speedway will be in 10-15 years time when the currently fan base is dead. It will need to start again with a bottom up approach. It can go for loud, dirty, horrible, tattoos like Woffys that you ban wouldn’t like. Rather than this “it’s really lovely” approach is takes now.

Edited December 16, 2017 by SCB

[Halifaxtiger]

8 hours ago, SCB said:

I only had 6 points so kept to generic things. I’d also like a rule that said every returning rider had an x% discount on their average each season. 3% a year. Maybe not a huge amount in year 1 but by year 3 that’s quite a bit, someone like Freddie Lindgren had he not missed a season would be on a 39% reduction now.

 

regarding my old people comments, maybe they were a bit harsh but they’re not untrue are they? Why try and keep old people who will die, statistically in the next 10 years? And you’re not going to attract young people while you insentivise old people. I honestly think the best thing for speedway will be in 10-15 years time when the currently fan base is dead. It will need to start again with a bottom up approach. It can go for loud, dirty, horrible, tattoos like Woffys that you ban wouldn’t like. Rather than this “it’s really lovely” approach is takes now.

They weren't harsh, they were grossly insulting - and yes, they are untrue.

They are also typical of someone who rarely actually attends speedway because  you don't seem to realise just how much the sport needs its older clientele. As someone who does go and goes regularly across the country, without them speedway would be finished. For right or wrong, they represent a substantial part of speedway's attendances and alienating them without ensuring that new supporters are being attracted in their thousands is, unquestionably, more than stupid. 

Take my friend Kirky Lane. Belle Vue season ticket holder, attended at least 70 matches across Britain last season. Pensioner. 

I also don't believe that to attract new, younger fans you need necessarily get rid of the older ones. From experience, the older ones are just interested in the speedway. They don't care what music you play or what happens in the interval. They also wouldn't care if you billed it as an extreme sport. Indeed, many of them would embrace change because they know only too well that the sport needs new blood on the terraces.

Once again, I will point to Isle of Wight. One of their main priorities is attracting youngsters and they put in an awful lot of time and effort in doing so. In the process, they do everything they can to retain their existing fan base and one of the reasons for their success is that they view speedway as a family sport. In other words, it is for all ages.

[Halifaxtiger]

9 hours ago, rmc said:

It is fascinating to note that offensive comments by scb can be considered part of an "excellent post". Whatever sense he might make in his other points is devalued by his ignorant use of ageism.

People have a right to enjoy speedway irrespective of race, gender, sexual orientation or AGE. Yes the sport needs a younger age group following it but is that really to be achieved by sneering at the elderly who do attend meetings?

Where do we stop in SCB's nasty little world, an age limit on attendance and proof required of being under what arbitrary age limit he considers 'old'? 

I have to admit though that he is in fact doing me a favour, along with other posters of his nature. For a few years it hasn't been possible for me to attend more than a handful of meetings. Thankfully my circumstances have changed and with it came the joy of being able to start going to meetings regularly again. Then I read things like "Don't worry about the old, they'll die soon" make me realise that I have other interests to spend my time and cash on. After 46 years I'll make that one less oldie to be despised and sneered at in future. 

I agree with all of your comments here Rob but the last paragraph does you little credit.

Basically, what you are saying is that you won't go because of one person's attitude towards the older fan - a person that very rarely even attends meetings.

Bluntly, that's a childish reaction because, as someone who does go, I can assure you that no older fans are 'despised and sneered at'. Quite the opposite, in fact.

The view that older fans are all chair bound with woolly hats and flasks and hate any change or innovation is complete stereotypical nonsense and the overwhelming majority are absolutely nothing like that at all. 

[bigcatdiary]

I class myself as retired and don’t really take any offence from SCB,s post who is just basically putting across his point of view, something we all do.

The sport in this country needs to take a major look at itself and the SCB are just a toy for the BSPA, s latest whim and do their bidding, that point was obvious from the Rathbone appeal decision.

Its abundantly clear those in power on the BSPA don’t have either the ability or desire to sort the problems out and are just concerned with their own clubs.  I disagree with SCB that the rules are OK, they aren’t (they are a complete crock of shyte) but he is right to highlight Lakesides use of their 2018 reserves on old averages which is totally wrong when they have 2017 Premiership averages which can properly be converted.

Averages have always played a major part of UK speedway and quite why riders cannot have properly adjusted averages which shows their averages for the league they ride in and a converted one for each of the others is beyond me in this age where it’s all done on spreadsheets.

Riders who are new to the UK or don’t possess a current average should be assessed at a level which means they don’t give their new team a distinct advantage over others, this farce of riders coming in on averages well below what their ability deserves has been abused for decades and it’s still going on.

i still insist the basic problem is clubs pay out to riders more than they can afford and until they force riders to be realistic I don’t see it improving, if riders cannot commit 100% to their British teams they they shouldn’t be allowed to double up.

 

 

[Gemini]

20 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

They get asked 

So if they talk funny, like with a Brummie or Geordie accent they're telling lies?

[Aces51]

2 minutes ago, Gemini said:

So if they talk funny, like with a Brummie or Geordie accent they're telling lies?

Or refugees from the mainland

[Baldyman]

On 16/12/2017 at 2:28 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

IF you were a teenager why would you go to speedway?

That answer is pretty simple..I wouldn't.

[moxey63]

On 12/16/2017 at 2:28 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

IF you were a teenager why would you go to speedway?

Not even on Community Service.

[mikebv]

6 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Not even on Community Service.

Could be a good deterrent that..

"Commit a crime young man and you will spend the next 6 months going to Speedway"

[mikebv]

On 16/12/2017 at 2:28 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

IF you were a teenager why would you go to speedway?

Course they would..

Every teen wants a night out once a week socialising with their Dad and Granddad!

Don't they? 

[SCB]

2 hours ago, Baldyman said:

That answer is pretty simple..I wouldn't.

Exactly, because the sport is promoted to your nan. They play music for you nan. They interview dull ex-riders with no charisma from your nans era, the presenter is the same age as your nan and they incentive your nan to attend by letting her in for less.

But if you dare suggest these thing are wrong you may are treated as if you have just said, “all old people should be rounded up and shot”.

They do nothing for young people but you suggest this has to change and the old people come out with their pitch forks. They’re being selfish, the sport is going to die with them but they don’t care because obviously they’ll be dead so why would they care that the sport doesn’t exist in the U.K. any more when they’re gone?

Cue more pitch forks because I’ve dared to suggest again that old people is not a good target audience. Other than Saga what company targets old people? Speedway does it, speedway obviously knows best.