moxey63 Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) When a club as established as Coventry can be taken out, it does make you realise how fragile the sand speedway has been built on really is. I liken speedway to the fairground community - run from caravans, nobody wants it near their homes, workers see another day at another venue. Even non-league football clubs have more security than your top speedway club in the UK. Edited December 15, 2017 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) You're all looking at this the wrong way. IMO anyone with a Premiership average of 6+ should be blocked from the Championship. It's the second division FFS, it shouldn't have top riders (Cook as a GP rider IS a top rider) eligible. The fact that Morris, Cook, Masters, Schlein, Harris, Lambert, Worrall, King, Wright, Howarth, Lawson and Bjerre is wrong. If clubs want them riders? Go Premiership. For me, a far bigger issue is that Lakeside have signed Zach Wajtknecht and Ben Morley who rode in the 2017 Premiership on their 2016 Championship (PL) averages, yet Kennett cannot drop back down on him 2016 Championship (PL) average, despite the fact the whole purpose of the rule when first introduced in 2001/2002 was to prevent riders moving up, achievement too high and average and being forced out of the sport. Edited December 16, 2017 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 One thing that has been made pretty clear to me over the last few seasons of the so called better riders riding in the second division..is that the standard is now a lot higher..but I haven't seen the crowds go up accordingly...I've read alot about strengthening the product will bring fans back...it really hasn't been the case at all....so that myth has completely burst in my eyes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) HAS coincided with an era of guests, depleted teams, irregular fixtures and lots of other nonsense so no surprise that attendances have gone down rather than up. Edited December 17, 2017 by PHILIPRISING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 i agree with SCB - anyone over 6 shouldn't be in the 2nd Div 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyb Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 6:08 PM, SCB said: You're all looking at this the wrong way. IMO anyone with a Premiership average of 6+ should be blocked from the Championship. It's the second division FFS, it shouldn't have top riders (Cook as a GP rider IS a top rider) eligible. The fact that Morris, Cook, Masters, Schlein, Harris, Lambert, Worrall, King, Wright, Howarth, Lawson and Bjerre is wrong. If clubs want them riders? Go Premiership. For me, a far bigger issue is that Lakeside have signed Zach Wajtknecht and Ben Morley who rode in the 2017 Premiership on their 2016 Championship (PL) averages, yet Kennett cannot drop back down on him 2016 Championship (PL) average, despite the fact the whole purpose of the rule when first introduced in 2001/2002 was to prevent riders moving up, achievement too high and average and being forced out of the sport. Why shouldn't the championship (second division) have top riders, it's better than the premiership anyway. Instead of arguing over averages, do away with them completely. It was always better that way, even with rider control. But I doubt that the present BSPA could organise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 hours ago, crazyb said: Why shouldn't the championship (second division) have top riders, it's better than the premiership anyway. Because it is the second division. If clubs want to sign the likes of Nicholls, Harris etc. then they should move up to the Premiership. The Championship has a few rich team, but also a lot of teams who need to cut their cloth accordingly. If you open the floodgates then you will find the majority of the Championship teams simply won't be able to afford the top riders and will become uncompetitive, which isn't a good long term outcome for the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 hours ago, crazyb said: Why shouldn't the championship (second division) have top riders, it's better than the premiership anyway. Instead of arguing over averages, do away with them completely. It was always better that way, even with rider control. But I doubt that the present BSPA could organise that. 1. Because it's the second division, second division are by their nature second rate. If you want first rate you aspire to the top division. 2. How is it better exactly? It has exactly the same issues and apart from a dozen or so of the very top riders its the bloody same! Why do Championship fans always think their league is better? Weirdly while wanting the top rider who in fact, cause a lot of the problems. I don't believe it was the Premiership that Robert Lambert missed on a whim in 2017, or the Premiership that Jack Holder fecked off from a few weekends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 hours ago, MattK said: Because it is the second division. If clubs want to sign the likes of Nicholls, Harris etc. then they should move up to the Premiership. The Championship has a few rich team, but also a lot of teams who need to cut their cloth accordingly. If you open the floodgates then you will find the majority of the Championship teams simply won't be able to afford the top riders and will become uncompetitive, which isn't a good long term outcome for the league. This is going to sound harsh...but isn't the idea of sport that the best get better and if the weak can't keep up they get denoted and find the level they can compete at? why should speedway be any different?? It's either a sport or it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, Baldyman said: This is going to sound harsh...but isn't the idea of sport that the best get better and if the weak can't keep up they get denoted and find the level they can compete at? why should speedway be any different?? It's either a sport or it isn't. You are right, in theory. The main difference for me is that with only 20 professional teams and no promotion/relegation the leagues needs to be mindful of their least resourceful clubs, rather than as other have suggested, allowing clubs to build teams without limits. If on the other hand, the club who finished top was forced to move up, then over time the clubs with deeper pockets would tend towards the top league and the second division would be a collection of teams with similar bankrolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 6:51 PM, Mr. Clemens said: Many years ago back at the old shay stadium a man and a woman approached us and told us they were new to speedway and wanted to know the rules. We told them not to worry about the rules as they change them every other week, just enjoy the racing. The couple looked at us and walked off disgruntled. A few weeks later they approached us again to apologise has they had found out that we were correct. From what I have experienced in speedway since I started watching the sport again in 2005 nothing has changed. In fact it is so much the norm now that I believe the whole membership of this hallowed forum would have a mass cardiac arrest if the rules applied were ever well thought out, correct in almost every instance and were adhered to from start to finish. Yet another ridiculous post. So you told a newcomer 'not to worry about the rules'? The rules are simple. 15 races, 2 riders from each side, 3pts for 1st, 2 for 2nd etc. That is ALL a newcomer needs to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, BWitcher said: Yet another ridiculous post. So you told a newcomer 'not to worry about the rules'? The rules are simple. 15 races, 2 riders from each side, 3pts for 1st, 2 for 2nd etc. That is ALL a newcomer needs to know. But those are the basics... a closer inspection will tell the newcomer... it is a sport, but not as you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 It's like most things in life....I would love a nice fast car...but my budget can't afford one...so I've got a cheaper slower one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, moxey63 said: But those are the basics... a closer inspection will tell the newcomer... it is a sport, but not as you know it. And the basics are all a newcomer needs to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BWitcher said: And the basics are all a newcomer needs to know. 4 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Agree with that....its all the newcomer needs to know...we want them to come back Edited December 21, 2017 by Baldyman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Baldyman said: Agree with that....its all the newcomer needs to know...we want them to come back Correct. Let's face it, if someone completely new approaches you at speedway and asks about the rules, that is what you are going to tell them. Why we keep getting folk making up stories like the one above is beyond me. Unless "Mr Clemens" truly is just plain rude. I note he relates to the Shay so we talking way back to the early 80's at the latest.. I'd be interested to know what rules were changing 'every week' back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) I knew I had lost it... that night at Kirky Lane about 10 years ago, when a fellow fan of longstanding asked a certain question about one rule or other. I did not know the answer. I felt ashamed... truly ashamed. There is a point when you can't be bothered with another blinking rule change. It's alright attracting a first-nighter, who likes the novelty of motobikes sliding, but the spectacle would get quite boring if the rules weren't there. Do you tell the newcomer that it's best not bothering with the rules... which seemingly are often written on a magic slate at some winter-break by those folk we term promoters. Edited December 21, 2017 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 If they come back another week..they may ask what happens if?? But don't ever offer the info lol.....speedway rules are just bonkers. Or you could just say I could tell you the rules mate, but they will change them next season...Maybe even during this season.....now just watch the racing and enjoy it for what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Baldyman said: If they come back another week..they may ask what happens if?? But don't ever offer the info lol.....speedway rules are just bonkers. Or you could just say I could tell you the rules mate, but they will change them next season...Maybe even during this season.....now just watch the racing and enjoy it for what it is. That's nonsense. Speedway isn't just about watching the racing and enjoying it for what it is. It's a team sport. I know it can get tiresome for people to keep making football comparisons, but if someone asked you the rules of football, you wouldn't tell them not to worry about it and just enjoy how good everyone is at kicking a ball. This is, basically, what you are advocating. One problem speedway has, I think, if getting outsides to fully understand the team concept. A lack of a scoreboard at most tracks, for example, takes a lot away from this. If a newcomer wants to know the rules, instead of being a smart arse, you tell them about the teams, the scoring and so on. Surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Grachan said: That's nonsense. Speedway isn't just about watching the racing and enjoying it for what it is. It's a team sport. I know it can get tiresome for people to keep making football comparisons, but if someone asked you the rules of football, you wouldn't tell them not to worry about it and just enjoy how good everyone is at kicking a ball. This is, basically, what you are advocating. One problem speedway has, I think, if getting outsides to fully understand the team concept. A lack of a scoreboard at most tracks, for example, takes a lot away from this. If a newcomer wants to know the rules, instead of being a smart arse, you tell them about the teams, the scoring and so on. Surely? I had already said that in a previous post sort of. But I wouldn't go into the rules in detail as let's be honest they are rubbish and ruin the sport...and they change every year. You wouldn't tell someone this bloke can ride cos he is under 6 in one league so he can ride but that bloke can't even though some are over 6 can lol And you like the statistics and things like that..some don't...I would make a judgement on the person I would be talking to to too what I tell them. Edited December 21, 2017 by Baldyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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