iris123 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) It is difficult to compare,as I said.Joonas never had the mainly Scandinavian or home English track route.Maybe f-s-p will expand,but looks like he wasn't that often nominated for the GP qualifiers anyway Something tends to remind me that there were clashes with the Longtrack????Seem to have the idea it gave Smolinski trouble as well Edited December 10, 2017 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 It is difficult to compare,as I said.Joonas never had the mainly Scandinavian or home English track route.Maybe f-s-p will expand,but looks like he wasn't that often nominated for the GP qualifiers anywayFrom about 2006 onwards I think Joonas always had a slot if he wanted one. Cant comment before that cos cant remember and dont know. The thing is that Kylmä was often out injured. I think one year he was even run over by a team mate at Lakeside AFTER the race was finished and that was it for his dream of SGP that year. Bad luck and poor timing of injuries many years... And yes, Id also say its difficult to compare, near impossible. It is difficult to compare,as I said.Joonas never had the mainly Scandinavian or home English track route.Maybe f-s-p will expand,but looks like he wasn't that often nominated for the GP qualifiers anywayFrom about 2006 onwards I think Joonas always had a slot if he wanted one. Cant comment before that cos cant remember and dont know. The thing is that Kylmä was often out injured. I think one year he was even run over by a team mate at Lakeside AFTER the race was finished and that was it for his dream of SGP that year. Bad luck and poor timing of injuries many years... And yes, Id also say its difficult to compare, near impossible. U just need to pick an opinion and stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) From about 2006 onwards I think Joonas always had a slot if he wanted one. Cant comment before that cos cant remember and dont know. The thing is that Kylmä was often out injured. I think one year he was even run over by a team mate at Lakeside AFTER the race was finished and that was it for his dream of SGP that year. Bad luck and poor timing of injuries many years... And yes, Id also say its difficult to compare, near impossible. From about 2006 onwards I think Joonas always had a slot if he wanted one. Cant comment before that cos cant remember and dont know. The thing is that Kylmä was often out injured. I think one year he was even run over by a team mate at Lakeside AFTER the race was finished and that was it for his dream of SGP that year. Bad luck and poor timing of injuries many years... And yes, Id also say its difficult to compare, near impossible. U just need to pick an opinion and stick with it. Yes,i did mention in an earlier post that his career was hampered by a number of injuries.And we agree on that.I do think it extremely close with Joonas just ahead,but can understand others who will say Kai was the best.A few times he did quite well,winning or coming 2nd in qualifiers,but also had to ride in Hungary etc which as I said Kai's route back then was mostly riding in Scandinavia to qualify for a world final Edited December 10, 2017 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 When did the quali system change? I remember Laukkanen winning an intercontinental final in 2003 but only qualis and semis when we talk of Kylmä. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Yes,i did mention in an earlier post that his career was hampered by a number of injuries.And we agree on that.I do think it extremely close with Joonas just ahead,but can understand others who will say Kai was the best.A few times he did quite well,winning or coming 2nd in qualifiers,but also had to ride in Hungary etc which as I said Kai's route back then was mostly riding in Scandinavia to qualify for a world final I think the Scandinavia line is a bit of a red herring. Did Kai Niemi have an advantage over the Brits, Danes, Yanks, Aussies, Kiwis when racing in Sweden just because he was born in a neighbouring country? I dont think so. Was he riding in the Swedish League with regular access to Vetlanda? Dont think so. The route line also only really has some merit if its a one-off (like in 89 when fellow countryman Tyravainen qualified in an injury ravaged year for top riders) or if he had been clearly out of his depth when he reached the final (see Mr Ondrasik). Neither is the case. He reached four finals including finishing fourth and eighth in World Finals on neutral tracks. Again, fourth! Thats way, way above any other Finnish speedway achievement in the worlds most prestigious competition. That fact is inarguable. You could make all the conjecture you like about the respective merits of this rider or that. But you will not be able to produce facts like that about any other Finn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kylmä was in the challenge twice and laukkanen 3 or 4 times. Niemi a 4 time finalist. Did not know Niemi did a 15 year career... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kylmä was in the challenge twice and laukkanen 3 or 4 times. Niemi a 4 time finalist. Did not know Niemi did a 15 year career...And Neil Collins had a 29 year career... Cards on the table. Im English and have been a supporter of Exeter and Belle Vue with an affection for Edinburgh from my student days. Neither Neimi or Kylmakorpi have ridden for any team I have any bias towards, not Teromaa for that matter. But I suppose I could declare an interest in Hautamaki, Ylinen and Laukennen. So I am completely neutral on the best Finn - no feelings either way to Niemi or Kylmakorpi. You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Kylmä was in the challenge twice and laukkanen 3 or 4 times. Niemi a 4 time finalist. Did not know Niemi did a 15 year career...Kylmakorpi didn't appear until after I had left the UK, but I was around for Niemi's entire British career. I was there the first time he rode at Plough Lane in 1976 (in the second half) and I saw him on a regular basis except for 1990 and 1991. He was never a "world-beater" but could mix it with - and often beat - the best of them. As has been said, the BL was the world's strongest league back then, and he was a remarkably consistent performer, even at international level. In view of iris123's breakdown, I will revise my original statement, and place Kylmakorpi above Teromaa. In addition to the figures provided, I think Joonas's durability gives him the edge. Teromaa was only around for a relatively short period, and was never the same after he left Leicester. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 And Neil Collins had a 29 year career... Cards on the table. Im English and have been a supporter of Exeter and Belle Vue with an affection for Edinburgh from my student days. Neither Neimi or Kylmakorpi have ridden for any team I have any bias towards, not Teromaa for that matter. But I suppose I could declare an interest in Hautamaki, Ylinen and Laukennen. So I am completely neutral on the best Finn - no feelings either way to Niemi or Kylmakorpi. You? I dont have a UK team of my own, but I'm sticking with Niemi as the best Finnish rider ever. Also I can see Niemi riding in Finnish finals pretty regurarly between 75-90 with 9 titles, 1 Silver and 1 bronze. Where as I did not see Kylmä ride in Finnish championship at all after 2003. Dont know why Niemi did almost them all, but it's pretty safe to say it was about money that Kylmä did not. My point with Niemi riding a 15 year career wasn't about it been super long, it was about it being longer than I had realised. I'm kind of surprised myself, but I get no kicks out of this debate on the best Finn. But I do hope that Timo Lahti makes enough of himself to be considered a part of a similar thread in 10 years time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 No real bias for me either.If anything I guess I should be towards Niemi as he rode for Wimbledon.But then again Joonas rode for my local team here,Brokstedt.So evens stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma23 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 Kai Laukkanen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 Kai Niemi for me! Rode in the British League for 15 years from the mid 70's to early 90's when nearly all the Worlds top riders competed in it when it was the World toughest speedway League and for many of them years had averages of 6+. Rode in a number of World Finals pre the GP years when you had to qualify on merit rather than wildcards. Also must be noted that Niemi had to get through the notoriously hard Nordic final then the Inter Continental final which often had a stronger line up than the final itself. At Bradford in 1985 he was in the top 6 scorers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, 25yearfan said: Kai Niemi for me! Rode in the British League for 15 years from the mid 70's to early 90's when nearly all the Worlds top riders competed in it when it was the World toughest speedway League and for many of them years had averages of 6+. Rode in a number of World Finals pre the GP years when you had to qualify on merit rather than wildcards. Also must be noted that Niemi had to get through the notoriously hard Nordic final then the Inter Continental final which often had a stronger line up than the final itself. At Bradford in 1985 he was in the top 6 scorers! No doubt it has to be Kai. I saw his debut for White City (against Wolves) in 1976 and it became quickly obvious he was going to be a classy rider. As a 'Rebel' regular I saw him develop as a rider and continued to watch him when he joined Eastbourne after the closure of White City. Ila Teromaa was another class act (now sadly no longer with us) but his move to Cradley seemed to diminish his 'star' quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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