stevebrum Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, SCB said: But thats illegal. TBH I'm with you. But I'm also appalled that class riders are allowed to ride in the Championship. The monkeys in charge should have simply banned anyone with an average over 6 from being able to drop down or double up. In stead we have this (illegal) mess now. It's only an illegal mess because it's what the BSPA do oh too well. Given how few riders there are to go around these days I fail to see any issue with ANY British rider being allowed to ride both leagues if they want to. It's not and can't be illegal as all other European nations do exactly that. The ruling seemed to work fine before until last season when they changed the goalposts and then moved them back straight away. That was the worst possible move to make. Reward some, then penalise others. And I'm not surprised either in all honesty. Make it easier for your BRITISH riders, rules can apply to other nationalities. Seems fair enough to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Make it easier for your BRITISH riders, rules can apply to other nationalities. Seems fair enough to me. But that is ILLEGAL. You cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MattK said: But that is ILLEGAL. You cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. You don't have to discriminate, just have a gentleman's agreement that you won't ask a 'foreign' rider to double up/down. But then again we all know what happened to the old 2nd Division gentleman's agreement regarding foreign riders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, Gambo said: You don't have to discriminate, just have a gentleman's agreement that you won't ask a 'foreign' rider to double up/down. But then again we all know what happened to the old 2nd Division gentleman's agreement regarding foreign riders... The law states that you cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. Therefore a rule which excludes certain nationalities while allowing others, is by definition illegal. You're right, a gentlemen's agreement could be thrashed out, but it would only take one disgruntled rider to challenge the ruling. I'd imagine many of speedway's rules would fall foul of the law. This is why the authorities crumbled as soon as Nicholls consulted legal representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, MattK said: But that is ILLEGAL. You cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. So how do the other European leagues get around it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, stevebrum said: So how do the other European leagues get around it? I don't know the laws in those countries, but presumably unless a rider seeks legal representation those leagues will just continue until challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MattK said: I don't know the laws in those countries, but presumably unless a rider seeks legal representation those leagues will just continue until challenged. Don't we all fall under the EU rulings tho in Europe? As far as I'm concerned the other leagues are doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 16 hours ago, SCB said: But thats illegal. TBH I'm with you. But I'm also appalled that class riders are allowed to ride in the Championship. The monkeys in charge should have simply banned anyone with an average over 6 from being able to drop down or double up. In stead we have this (illegal) mess now. You say that but riders want 2 leagues so badly they drop their averages to 6.... The Championship promoters want them too for obvious reasons.... The Premiership needs that TV deal so the riders earn more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrow Boy 2 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Trees said: You say that but riders want 2 leagues so badly they drop their averages to 6.... The Championship promoters want them too for obvious reasons.... The Premiership needs that TV deal so the riders earn more... If they want to ride in the BCL so much then let them but they should not be allowed to ride in the BPL as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, MattK said: The law states that you cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. Therefore a rule which excludes certain nationalities while allowing others, is by definition illegal. You're right, a gentlemen's agreement could be thrashed out, but it would only take one disgruntled rider to challenge the ruling. I'd imagine many of speedway's rules would fall foul of the law. This is why the authorities crumbled as soon as Nicholls consulted legal representation. Not actually true because the SCB were never going to allow the rule to stand and according to Mr Rising they told the BSPA this previously. In my view if they wanted it done fairly then all riders with a PL average above 6 should have been prevented from riding CL, so that includes Morris, Harris, Worrall, Howarth and the others. I'm happy they've decided to open the gates to British riders, it's British Speedway. The Swedes and Poles do it, about time we grew a pair. Edited March 2, 2018 by SPEEDY69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 minute ago, SPEEDY69 said: Not actually true because the SCB were never going to allow the rule to stand and according to Mr Rising they told the BSPA this previously. In my view any if they wanted it done fairly then all riders with a PL average above 6 should have been prevented from riding CL, so that includes Morris, Harris, Worrall, Howarth and the others. I'm happy they've decided to open the gates to British riders, it's British Speedway. The Swedes and Poles do it, about time we grew a pair. They haven't opened the gates to British riders though. Their use of the term "home grown" is misleading if people think this means British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 The BSPA causing confusion? Surely not...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 In the BSPA's defence(!) they have clearly stated the rule*, however many people have abbreviated it to mean British riders. *Riders who have previously been eligible for the old Conference League, or the current National Development League, are now eligible for the Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 How does that apply to Rory Schlein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: How does that apply to Rory Schlein? He rode for Sheffield Prowlers in the Conference back in 2001/02. Edited March 2, 2018 by Barney Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, MattK said: In the BSPA's defence(!) they have clearly stated the rule*, however many people have abbreviated it to mean British riders. *Riders who have previously been eligible for the old Conference League, or the current National Development League, are now eligible for the Championship. As always they leave themselves wide open to interpretation. It's true that any nationality that have ridden in the 3rd tier are eligible. That's not really in dispute. The ruling of BRITISH RIDERS ONLY should be the only addendum required when talking about riders being eligible to double up irrespective of averages. It's NOT illegal to add that, all the other European leagues look after their own and they fall under the same EU rulings that the UK does or currently do. Whether they would ever be challenged is a different argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, stevebrum said: As always they leave themselves wide open to interpretation. It's true that any nationality that have ridden in the 3rd tier are eligible. That's not really in dispute. The ruling of BRITISH RIDERS ONLY should be the only addendum required when talking about riders being eligible to double up irrespective of averages. It's NOT illegal to add that, all the other European leagues look after their own and they fall under the same EU rulings that the UK does or currently do. Whether they would ever be challenged is a different argument. It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of: race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, MattK said: It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of: race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights Well intended of course however it doesn't favour those who it is meant to protect. Typical UK rule. No wonder British people are second class citizens. Different point of view for speedway so I'll get off this tangent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 On 3/2/2018 at 1:29 PM, MattK said: It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of: race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights If Poland can get away with it, why not us.??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, hyderd said: If Poland can get away with it, why not us.??? Because Poland doesn't have to comply with British law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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