One Off World Finalists Who Wouldn't Have Qualified For Gp Ssystem

[BOBBATH]

Was thinking of this the other day-while I loved the excitement of the one off World Finals , there were definitely some riders who were lucky to get there based on overall season results.Not sure how the modern GP system works but I think riders are selected on the basis of various criteria. I don't think the following fifties/ sixties riders would have been able to enter under the current system.

While I mean no disrespect, I think such names as Brian Elliot, Rick France, Jim Lightfoot, maybe Bob Oakley, Ron Mountford and even Wally Green could not have gotten into the current GP system. Would be interested in other forumlanders views on this-again no criticism of the riders mentioned is intended and they all greatly enhanced our enjoyment of speedway -God bless 'em all.

[Sidney the robin]

Was thinking of this the other day-while I loved the excitement of the one off World Finals , there were definitely some riders who were lucky to get there based on overall season results.Not sure how the modern GP system works but I think riders are selected on the basis of various criteria. I don't think the following fifties/ sixties riders would have been able to enter under the current system.

While I mean no disrespect, I think such names as Brian Elliot, Rick France, Jim Lightfoot, maybe Bob Oakley, Ron Mountford and even Wally Green could not have gotten into the current GP system. Would be interested in other forumlanders views on this-again no criticism of the riders mentioned is intended and they all greatly enhanced our enjoyment of speedway -God bless 'em all.

That is why i liked that system to be honest the underdog had a chance now we dont see that so much even Woffinden after his debut series never had to qualify he got a wildcard.The Series has been good and taken the sport forward but for me i prefered the old system exciting and i maintain it was harder to win a one off meeting than the Marathon percentage series is.Saying that both format's need different qualities from a rider to win them.

[BOBBATH]

So whaddya think Sid would the guys I mentioned have made it to the GP system. I gotta say -and this may be another thread -would there be riders who never made the one off World Finals who WOULD have qualified under GP rules- I got several names here -e.g. Charlie Monk , Tommy Miller, Roy Trigg, Jim Squibb, Colin Gooddy, Arne Pander (obviously), Ronnie Genz, Bill Andrew, Ivor Brown, Reg Reeves! Any other names?

For White Knight- I reckon Jim Airey would have made it to the GP system

[steve roberts]

The beauty and romance of the traditional One-Off World Final was that most riders at each season's commencement could, in theory, make the World Final.

 

As Ivan Mauger has often been quoted today's GP series is basically an invitation competition open to a few individuals.

[norbold]

So whaddya think Sid would the guys I mentioned have made it to the GP system. I gotta say -and this may be another thread -would there be riders who never made the one off World Finals who WOULD have qualified under GP rules- I got several names here -e.g. Charlie Monk , Tommy Miller, Roy Trigg, Jim Squibb, Colin Gooddy, Arne Pander (obviously), Ronnie Genz, Bill Andrew, Ivor Brown, Reg Reeves! Any other names?

For White Knight- I reckon Jim Airey would have made it to the GP system

Apart from Arne Pander and just possibly Charlie Monk, I don't think any of the others you mention would ever have qualified for a Grand Prix series.

[The White Knight]

A difficult question BOBBATH.

 

I agree with you regarding Jim Airey.

 

Personally - I'm with Sidney on the 'One Off' World Final - I much preferred that.

 

It's all about opinions though and I appreciate that plenty of folk like the GP System.

 

Not for me though.

[BOBBATH]

Great thoughts folks- Norbold,I would have to stand by Roy Trigg who I reckon was as good as Colin Pratt-so do you think CP might also not have made the GP cut off-also I still maintain Charlie Monk and Tommy MIller should have made it to GP-we may have to agree to disagree on this

Do you folks agree with the names I felt wouldn't have made it-Elliott et al.??

Also I have to add to the list who wouldn't have made the Grand Prix-Leo McAuliife

[Sidney the robin]

So whaddya think Sid would the guys I mentioned have made it to the GP system. I gotta say -and this may be another thread -would there be riders who never made the one off World Finals who WOULD have qualified under GP rules- I got several names here -e.g. Charlie Monk , Tommy Miller, Roy Trigg, Jim Squibb, Colin Gooddy, Arne Pander (obviously), Ronnie Genz, Bill Andrew, Ivor Brown, Reg Reeves! Any other names?

For White Knight- I reckon Jim Airey would have made it to the GP system

Alot of those you named probably would not of made a series "BOBBATH" yes Airey is a fine example only made 1 appearance in a one off final Phil Crump is another who only made three World Final Appearances the series would of suited him better.

[Sidney the robin]

I know it is very hard to judge my opinion only i dont think to many One off final winners could of won a series.Maybe Young,Moore? Fundin,Briggs,Mauger,Olsen,Michanek? Collins,Lee? Nielsen,Penhall.

[waiheke1]

Gundersen would have won at least one I reckon. Michanek maybe maybe not. Craven/knuttsdon maybe or maybe not.

Ermolenko might have done. Hans wouldnt have clean swept the 90s imo.

 

Back to the original question - a plethora of mediocre continental riders wouldnt have. Ondrasik starostin hack verner sova kuznetsov Kroeze etc

[Sidney the robin]

Gundersen would have won at least one I reckon. Michanek maybe maybe not. Craven/knuttsdon maybe or maybe not.

Ermolenko might have done. Hans wouldnt have clean swept the 90s imo.

 

Back to the original question - a plethora of mediocre continental riders wouldnt have. Ondrasik starostin hack verner sova kuznetsov Kroeze etc

I was a Erik fan but i dont think he would of beat Hans over 11/12 rounds even in his peak years and if Penhall had of stayed active and motiavated he could of beat both the Danes i think.Going back to the pool of great riders "BOBBATH" mentioned how good was Charlie Monk in the mid 60s ?? i always think Charlie,Ron How,and Brian Crutcher did not get the credit they deserved. Edited December 6, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[Grachan]

I was a Erik fan but i dont think he would of beat Hans over 11/12 rounds even in his peak years and if Penhall had of stayed active and motiavated he could of beat both the Danes i think.Going back to the pool of great riders "BOBBATH" mentioned how good was Charlie Monk in the mid 60s ?? i always think Charlie,Ron How,and Brian Crutcher did not get the credit they deserved.

 

I think Erik would have excelled in the earlier, knock-out system. Once it went to points scored I would go with Hans every time.

[Sidney the robin]

 

I think Erik would have excelled in the earlier, knock-out system. Once it went to points scored I would go with Hans every time.

Great point.🎅

[Gavan]

There are a few one off winners that i think may have struggled to win a GP series but also vice versa.

 

Per Jonsson, Gary Havelock, Jan O Pedersen and maybe even Ermolenko may have struggled over 12 rounds to be classed as the best.

 

But then again riders like Billy Hamill and Mark Loram won a world title when i wouldnt have had them in my list to win on a one off night.

[steve roberts]

 

I think Erik would have excelled in the earlier, knock-out system. Once it went to points scored I would go with Hans every time.

Most definitely...Hans would have excelled in a GP format at his peak and would have dominated the series.

[fatface]

1989 was a poor World Final line-up. Possibly because it fell in between eras. But you would be hard pressed to make a case for half of that field being GP standard. Troy Butler, Olli Tyrvainen, Tony Olsson, Gerd Riss, Roman Matousek, Karl Maier, Zoltan Adorjan - all second strings really.

Edited December 6, 2017 by falcace

[Andy Downes]

Almost every eastern european rider between 1980 and 1990 would certainly have struggled to qualify when there was a system where they were guarenteed a certain amount of slots in the final

 

Certainly no Pole between Plech and Gollob, maybe Egon Muller would have qualified if he had concentrated on the shorter tracks and Jiri Stancl who's continental reputation seemed a lot bigger than his UK form showed

[The White Knight]

Almost every eastern european rider between 1980 and 1990 would certainly have struggled to qualify when there was a system where they were guarenteed a certain amount of slots in the final

 

Certainly no Pole between Plech and Gollob, maybe Egon Muller would have qualified if he had concentrated on the shorter tracks and Jiri Stancl who's continental reputation seemed a lot bigger than his UK form showed

Edward Jancarz?

 

He was a very good and accomplished Rider.

[Triple.H.]

1989 was a poor World Final line-up. Possibly because it fell in between eras. But you would be hard pressed to make a case for half of that field being GP standard. Troy Butler, Olli Tyrvainen, Tony Olsson, Gerd Riss, Roman Matousek, Karl Maier, Zoltan Adorjan - all second strings really.

But they all fought their way through God knows how many qualifying rounds to get to the Final.

[waiheke1]

But they all fought their way through God knows how many qualifying rounds to get to the Final.

But the latter 4 faced no one of any real quality. The top 3 faire enough would have come through probably 4 meetings. But its hard to imagine any of them finishing top 3 from the qualifiers to make the series

Almost every eastern european rider between 1980 and 1990 would certainly have struggled to qualify when there was a system where they were guarenteed a certain amount of slots in the final

 

Certainly no Pole between Plech and Gollob, maybe Egon Muller would have qualified if he had concentrated on the shorter tracks and Jiri Stancl who's continental reputation seemed a lot bigger than his UK form showed

I wonder whether one of the wildcards would have gone to a token continental rider? Muller could have qualified on merit but I wonder if the likes of plech/stancl/kasper may have picked up wc?

(Plech up to 80 would have been well capable of qualifying, but from then til gollob I agree its hard to see any Eastern European qualifying unless they had an amazing gp challenge on a home track)