MattK Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Rank the averages by differential. As with any sample removing a proportion of the top and bottom scores should even out any unusual performances and leave a sensible figure to use. That would get you closer to a fair multiplier, but there will always be anomalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 MattK wrote " The fact that Holder's averages in Poland and the UK are similar (7.09 v 7.16) only shows that Holder had a poor season in the UK, not that he is on the way down." That is one way of looking at it. but you have to have faith and hope that in 2018 his drooping average does not turn into an alarming slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 MattK wrote " The fact that Holder's averages in Poland and the UK are similar (7.09 v 7.16) only shows that Holder had a poor season in the UK, not that he is on the way down." That is one way of looking at it. but you have to have faith and hope that in 2018 his drooping average does not turn into an alarming slide. No, that's not one way of looking at it. It is the ONLY way of looking at it if you use the averages he gained in Poland and Sweden. You are trying to introduce some kind of supposition into the equation, which is exactly what an algorithm is there to eliminate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 No, that's not one way of looking at it. It is the ONLY way of looking at it if you use the averages he gained in Poland and Sweden. You are trying to introduce some kind of supposition into the equation, which is exactly what an algorithm is there to eliminate. Straightforward really. Step 1: Get a data set of riders with averages in both leagues. Step 2: do linear regression to come up with a best fit. Step 3: apply formula to riders whose averages you wish to assess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 4. check the differences in machinery used in each country and apply the appropriate multiplier/divider!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 It doesn't confirm that. All it confirms is that they rode well in the UK. Lindgren's Polish average is very similar to Holder's Polish average (7.54 v 7.09) Id say it shows that a rider scoring 0 form 3 in one of his 11 meetings will heavily drag it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 4. check the differences in machinery used in each country and apply the appropriate multiplier/divider!! NO! Its 500 cc engines on big and little tracks ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Straightforward really. Step 1: Get a data set of riders with averages in both leagues. Step 2: do linear regression to come up with a best fit. Step 3: apply formula to riders whose averages you wish to assess. Der - how can that be a better way than the tried and tested independent one mans own opinion of what every riders assessed average should be system.Even if he does change his mind every year.Move with the times man . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I've always believed the riders averages create more arguments than any other area. Bearing in minds the frequency of changes to our racing program, it just proves how inaccurate these averages have become. Because of this, they become out of date the moment the season finishes..... Sooner, rather than later the BSPA will realise the benefits of using the grading of all riders to assemble equal teams..... This could be done using current form and/comparative date from other leagues prior to the AGM, so everybody would be aware of all the possibilities available, when discussing the following season... It would do away with, this '1over8s' ruling and allow manager to permutate their own ideas. The numerous calculations, the relentless arguments surrounding the strength of the league when riders last rode here, and the Ringers will become ghosts from the past. All it would needs to set it up is one meeting to grade all the riders, which each would retain for the whole year, whence they again become regarded... . Injuries and replacements become so simple. Replace a grade 3 with another grade 3, This simple idea would solve so many issues and create a new understanding for moving the sport forward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I've always believed the riders averages create more arguments than any other area. Bearing in minds the frequency of changes to our racing program, it just proves how inaccurate these averages have become. Because of this, they become out of date the moment the season finishes..... Sooner, rather than later the BSPA will realise the benefits of using the grading of all riders to assemble equal teams..... This could be done using current form and/comparative date from other leagues prior to the AGM, so everybody would be aware of all the possibilities available, when discussing the following season... It would do away with, this '1over8s' ruling and allow manager to permutate their own ideas. The numerous calculations, the relentless arguments surrounding the strength of the league when riders last rode here, and the Ringers will become ghosts from the past. All it would needs to set it up is one meeting to grade all the riders, which each would retain for the whole year, whence they again become regarded... . Injuries and replacements become so simple. Replace a grade 3 with another grade 3, This simple idea would solve so many issues and create a new understanding for moving the sport forward... These gradings to be arrived from 'using current form/comparative data' That sounds like averages to me..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 There has to be a dark art to averages as it not only allows the in crowd to gain an advantage but it can stop a team outside the inner circle from potentially winning. Current system will stay whilst UK speedway continues its demise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 These gradings to be arrived from 'using current form/comparative data' That sounds like averages to me..... These grading's would be set for the whole year, regardless of his form being good or bad, the grading remains the same. At the end of each season all riders are regarded, keeping in context of the form he has shown throughout the year. Of cause his scores has to be noted for obvious reasons, but his grading wont be altered every month. Riders will not be chopped and change to suit the averages. It would create more settled teams and a more even playing field. Riders who perform badly to doctor the averages would only hurt himself and still not get a low grading... There are so many advantages using this simple idea. It has been most successful in Denmark... Our levels of quality covers a much wider spectrum than there's, so our grading would need to accommodate all levels of our expertise, but 5 groups should be sufficient . When Managers select their teams, it will be for the whole year. Obviously changes can be made but it is done like for like basis only. Supporters and Fans will be able to connect with the same team each meeting and that has to be good for the sport....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 These grading's would be set for the whole year, regardless of his form being good or bad, the grading remains the same. At the end of each season all riders are regarded, keeping in context of the form he has shown throughout the year. Of cause his scores has to be noted for obvious reasons, but his grading wont be altered every month. Riders will not be chopped and change to suit the averages. It would create more settled teams and a more even playing field. Riders who perform badly to doctor the averages would only hurt himself and still not get a low grading... There are so many advantages using this simple idea. It has been most successful in Denmark... Our levels of quality covers a much wider spectrum than there's, so our grading would need to accommodate all levels of our expertise, but 5 groups should be sufficient . When Managers select their teams, it will be for the whole year. Obviously changes can be made but it is done like for like basis only. Supporters and Fans will be able to connect with the same team each meeting and that has to be good for the sport....... Yeah lets use a grading system that is totally open to manipulation instead of averages which actually determine how a rider is riding, what a brilliant idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Yeah lets use a grading system that is totally open to manipulation instead of averages which actually determine how a rider is riding, what a brilliant idea. Yes it is a brilliant idea...... you know what they say about Sarcasm ...... A Grading Committee with representatives from each club would find it very difficult to manipulate any grading of riders, and those who tried would stick out like a sore thumb.... How embarrassing.... If you cannot see the fiddles that has gone on with averages these past years , I suggest you visit the Opticians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I remember that last time we did grading, Lindback (Poole) was low and Harris (Coventry) was high, even though they were the same. Any system we adopt will not work satisfactorily as some of the people involved are bent. £££££ makes points, or hollow championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Yes I am referring to Woffy 2016, at the time I didn't like what happened but accepted it as it was within the rules at the time, If the BSPA had proposed a 9 pt assessed average for GP riders without a 2017 average at the same time they announced the one 8 point rider per team then fair enough, they didn't they let it slip after Zagar tweeted his interest of returning because of the new rules he had heard of ie, fixed race nights. Absolutely, it was more than within the rules for 2016. I didn't see the tweet regards Zagar but I fail to see how he can race here in 2018 when it's the same reason he couldn't ride here in 2017 - the Polish ruling. If he has signed in Poland and Sweden then he can't sign here with his home league still counting. Unless he knows something we all don't that the Poles aren't going to enforce the dictatorship rule again in 2018. Fingers crossed for that. I doubt certain BSPA members voted just to stop the Aces signing Zagar on 7 something. The reason then would be the same to stop Wolves signing Piotr I guess then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie456 Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 The only 3 league rule has been dropped now we and Poland have gone to set nights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 The only 3 league rule has been dropped now we and Poland have gone to set nightsAmusingly, the UK isn't using one of its FIM priority allocated nights. We have priority on Monday and Thursday nights. Denmark are the ones with priority on Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Amusingly, the UK isn't using one of its FIM priority allocated nights. We have priority on Monday and Thursday nights. Denmark are the ones with priority on Wednesday. That don't surprise me one little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Yeah and we know exactly which Championship clubs to blame for that!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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