SteveLyric2 Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Almost right, Piort Pawlicki had also been in contact with Wolverhampton about a return too. It's stated on another thread that CVS stated that Matt Ford was the driving force behind the 9pt rule. That so-called statement was incorrect as confirmed by SteveBrum who was at the fans forum. Matt Ford's name was NOT mentioned in any way in the context of 9 point GP riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Any team signing Chris Holder should be in the play off final without a doubt. Lets be honest that my team Swindon gained from getting Tobias on his previous average rather than the 1.4 if he started the season. There shouldnt be any questions of averages as shouldve been sorted out at the AGM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Didnt Holder only complete 9 league meetings for the stars, out of 28? If he aint reassessed then its bent. Going off previous, he wont be reassessed. If a sport is bent, why bother? He rode 14 meetings according to the BSPA site and has an official average just as Max Fricke does who only rode 19 meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Of course there is also every chance that Holder will be as sh¡te as he was last season once again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Nobody was more disappointed than I last year with the form of Chris Holder. I had always held him in such high esteem, and thought he was an adequate replacement for Niels, How wrong we were. he portrayed all the attributes of somebody not so genuine as we had always imagined.. Yes, we suffered from his signing, but him to have a GSA of 7 something says more about him than anything else. No I don't think his average should be re-assessed, but given the chance to have him in our team again, would get a big NO. from me, even if he was re-assessed to 5... Anybody who signs him are welcome. As far as I'm concerned he burnt all his bridges here........ . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Any team signing Chris Holder should be in the play off final without a doubt. Lets be honest that my team Swindon gained from getting Tobias on his previous average rather than the 1.4 if he started the season. There shouldnt be any questions of averages as shouldve been sorted out at the AGM. Absolutely but who decides on the averages ?The promoters I guess so vested interest comes into play. Such a sad state of things and why cant they just use a grade system based on historical scoring in the UK. New to UK or returning riders graded on their experience etc etc. Grade every rider currently getting his leg over around the world and then use it to build teams in each league here and in Europe. In these days of algorithms it cant be that difficult! Edited November 30, 2017 by GWC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 He rode 14 meetings according to the BSPA site and has an official average just as Max Fricke does who only rode 19 meetings. He completed 11. More than 9 but still not many out of 28! Shame rolling averages ended but Im sure they served their purpose (for some) when they were in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 He completed 11. More than 9 but still not many out of 28! Shame rolling averages ended but Im sure they served their purpose (for some) when they were in place. More than enough meetings to obtain a reliable average, i doubt it would have changed much if he had done 28 meetings, he was terrible all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 I don't know why anyone is being reassessed. Woffinden shouldn't Pawlicki shouldn't Zagar shouldn't and neither should Woryna. Its a different set up over here and they achieved those averages. The whole thing is silly tbh it's fair, of course it's fair. Everyone knows Woffy is way better than 7.03. Ditto all the 7+ GP standard riders. Ditto riders like Woryna who have improved massively since he was last here. All those riders earned their averages only riding against other heat leaders so of course they are falsely low. I'm delighted we are doing more to give riders realistic averages so no one can be accused of 'being a ringer' as accused clubs like Poole and Wolves have faced in recent seasons. More than fair to me even tho it means Wolves will miss out on Piotr coming back. Fairness for all is all I care about. Was this made public prior to the rewrite via social media or in the press? I've already answered this when questioned by Hydred. The comment was made by CVS at the talk in. There is no mention of it anywhere else to my knowledge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 That so-called statement was incorrect as confirmed by SteveBrum who was at the fans forum. Matt Ford's name was NOT mentioned in any way in the context of 9 point GP riders. Was it? Two people attended, one said CVS mentioned Ford, the other said he didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Was it? Two people attended, one said CVS mentioned Ford, the other said he didn't. Maybe Matt Ford was mentioned but not in connection to the 9 point rule or if they did say it was in connection with the 9 point rule then one of them is lying or imagining it. Edited December 1, 2017 by foreverblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 In these days of algorithms it cant be that difficult! Actually, it is very difficult. For example Jason Doyle's UK average is 17% higher than his Poland average, which you would expect as Poland is a stronger league. Freddie Lindgren's UK average is 23% higher than his Poland average. However, Chris Holder and Max Fricke's Poland averages are very similar to their UK averages, Holder's being within 1% and Fricke's 6%. Therefore any calculations would have winners and losers and the smart teams will always be looking to sign the anomalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 . Fairness for all is all I care about. Be honest, was these words on your mind in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) It was stated several times on other threads by Stevebrum that cvs said absolutely nothing of the sort. So why are you repeating this fake news Bwitcher? Edited December 1, 2017 by Steve Shovlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Anybody suggesting Holder should be re-assessed needs a brain check. He rode here the same as everybody else last season, so there is no doubt he should be on whatever figure he achieved regardless of if he can or can't up that figure. He's there for the taking just like anybody else is. Frankly I wouldn't go near him if I was a promoter as I wouldn't want him in my team and think he's a spent force and at best will only maintain his average instead of increasing it massively. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Was it? Two people attended, one said CVS mentioned Ford, the other said he didn't. CVS and Adams always mention Ford and Poole!! However if wasn't mentioned that Ford instigated the 9 point rule. Be honest, was these words on your mind in 2016. Those words I wish for very single season so yes obviously I want transparency in the rules every single season that are set out clearly at the start of the year and no sudden we will change or amend this rule because we hadn't thought it. I can only assume you are referring to Woffy coming back on his real average?? It was all within the rules wasn't it??? If they had regraded Woffy and all GP standard riders as a 9 at the start of 2016 I'd have applauded it. For me it's always about what's best for our sport and league, not what's best for my club. Fairness and clarity would make things so much better for the fans and BSPA IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Actually, it is very difficult. For example Jason Doyle's UK average is 17% higher than his Poland average, which you would expect as Poland is a stronger league. Freddie Lindgren's UK average is 23% higher than his Poland average. However, Chris Holder and Max Fricke's Poland averages are very similar to their UK averages, Holder's being within 1% and Fricke's 6%. Therefore any calculations would have winners and losers and the smart teams will always be looking to sign the anomalies. Indeed but as it confirms Doyle and Lindgren are the better riders (currently) so a premium will apply to them. If you have a rider who is on the way down (Holder) and on the way up (Fricke) then does it matter a lot when building a team? Thats always been the beauty of speedway hasnt it - riders improve and so does the team. Going the other way - tough. Avoiding average manipulation and petty squabbles amoungst erstwhile promotions is more important to the sport that is currently going downhill fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Indeed but as it confirms Doyle and Lindgren are the better riders (currently) so a premium will apply to them. It doesn't confirm that. All it confirms is that they rode well in the UK. Lindgren's Polish average is very similar to Holder's Polish average (7.54 v 7.09) If you have a rider who is on the way down (Holder) and on the way up (Fricke) then does it matter a lot when building a team? The fact that Holder's averages in Poland and the UK are similar (7.09 v 7.16) only shows that Holder had a poor season in the UK, not that he is on the way down. The point I am making is that there are no clear patterns when comparing Polish, Swedish and UK averages, so it is very difficult to come up with an algorithm which will accurately predict how a rider will perform in the UK based on how they have previously ridden in foreign leagues (which is what assessed averages are effectively trying to do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 It doesn't confirm that. All it confirms is that they rode well in the UK. Lindgren's Polish average is very similar to Holder's Polish average (7.54 v 7.09) The fact that Holder's averages in Poland and the UK are similar (7.09 v 7.16) only shows that Holder had a poor season in the UK, not that he is on the way down. The point I am making is that there are no clear patterns when comparing Polish, Swedish and UK averages, so it is very difficult to come up with an algorithm which will accurately predict how a rider will perform in the UK based on how they have previously ridden in foreign leagues (which is what assessed averages are effectively trying to do). Rank the averages by differential. As with any sample removing a proportion of the top and bottom scores should even out any unusual performances and leave a sensible figure to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Those words I wish for very single season so yes obviously I want transparency in the rules every single season that are set out clearly at the start of the year and no sudden we will change or amend this rule because we hadn't thought it. I can only assume you are referring to Woffy coming back on his real average?? It was all within the rules wasn't it??? If they had regraded Woffy and all GP standard riders as a 9 at the start of 2016 I'd have applauded it. For me it's always about what's best for our sport and league, not what's best for my club. Fairness and clarity would make things so much better for the fans and BSPA IMHO. Yes I am referring to Woffy 2016, at the time I didn't like what happened but accepted it as it was within the rules at the time, If the BSPA had proposed a 9 pt assessed average for GP riders without a 2017 average at the same time they announced the one 8 point rider per team then fair enough, they didn't they let it slip after Zagar tweeted his interest of returning because of the new rules he had heard of ie, fixed race nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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