2017 Profit & Loss

[teaboy279]

Kent made a profit again in 2017 as it has done every season so far, Len said in his end of season speech.

[mikebv]

Were is it stated they lost money?

Rosco quoted in the Speedway Star...

 

"We won the league, but had a hefty loss"...

 

And yet teams are still built with seven riders?

 

In most loss making businesses they cut the workforce to reduce payroll...

 

In British Speedway they seem to want to keep the numbers up but save money by having have lesser quality...

 

Difficult to achieve I would suspect when using a points limit as 'lesser riders' can all of a sudden have an average that increases their worth to the team, thus increasing their pay requests....

 

In years gone by how often did a 'four point superstar' get plucked from the various leagues around the world? These riders would invariably finish with a minimum six point plus average, and also invariably, would be paid well above 'reserve money' when riding at number six at the start of the season...

 

Basic supply and demand rules apply...

 

Have less places per team, thus more riders vying for those slots, and then you are in a much stronger position re how much you pay....

Edited November 28, 2017 by mikebv

[Vince]

Basic supply and demand rules apply...

 

Have less places per team, thus more riders vying for those slots, and then you are in a much stronger position re how much you pay....

 

Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used.

[waiheke1]

 

Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used.

correct. and while some fans say "clubs should cut costs and riders cut costs", when a rider performs badly due to having substandard equipment, many of the same fans will be calling for the rider to be replaces

[waytogo28]

Were is it stated they lost money?

 

I am only quoting the comments Rosco made in the Speedway Star " we won the league, but had a hefty loss - it wasn't a very profitable year ". I took that to mean they lost a considerable amount of money. Perhaps in Swindon "hefty" has another mean - £29.99? I am not stirring it re Swindon but concerned about the actual viability of UK speedway.

[mikebv]

Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used.

If nothing changes, and soon I would suggest, there will be less tracks for them to use that equipment on, less opportunities to earn money and therefore not much chance of breaking even...

 

Something has to give....

 

For me, semi pro Speedway is the only way the Sport in this country can survive and prosper..

 

It's ironic that in the 'Halcyon days' of the sport in Britain, when crowds were at the biggest, the majority of riders were semi pro. Riders happy earning "more in one night riding Speedway than I do in a month in the factory"...

 

Now when crowds are pretty dire at most tracks we have more full time pros than ever. Even at NL level!!?

 

The equation simply doesn't work..

Edited November 28, 2017 by mikebv

[steve roberts]

If nothing changes, and soon I would suggest, there will be less tracks for them to use that equipment on, less opportunities to earn money and therefore not much chance of breaking even...

 

Something has to give....

 

For me, semi pro Speedway is the only way the Sport in this country can survive and prosper..

 

It's ironic that in the 'Halcyon days' of the sport in Britain, when crowds were at the biggest, the majority of riders were semi pro. Riders happy earning "more in one night riding Speedway than I do in a month in the factory"...

 

Now when crowds are pretty dire at most tracks we have more full time pros than ever. Even at NL level!!?

 

The equation simply doesn't work..

...absolutely!

[arnieg]

When a client of mine won the league he made a substantial loss.

 

And that was at a time when there was a fixed pay scale.

[jeff]

Kent made a profit again in 2017 as it has done every season so far, Len said in his end of season speech.

I'm sure that is right but based on what I saw at Rye House it is achieved by an endless downward spiral of spending as little as possible on facilities, the track and riders. The spectator experience gets worse and worse each year until you are left with just the hardcore supporters who will put up with anything - but who have a growing sense that they are being taken for mugs.

[steve roberts]

I remember the late Bernard Crapper (Oxford co-Promoter) saying that he had reservations about point limits because economics would decree the make up of teams but of course given a free reign some promotions would spend money irrespective of whether they would re-cover that investment in pursuit of glory.

[dabbsjoe]

So Swindon made a considerable loss but at the same time have bought 3 new club assets in the past 6 months in Tobiasz M and the 2 lads off Lakeside.

 

surely if you're making a loss you don't go out spending more money needlessly

[BWitcher]

Not surprising they made a loss.

 

The strength of the league was cut again last season.. and more fans walked away.

 

Doubling up and guests were out of control.. and more fans walked away.

 

And here we are with 'some' fans screaming to cut the strength again... so more fans walk away.

 

The doubling up/guests situation is fixed, that is one positive step at least.

 

The points limit is 42.5, that was another...

 

But totally undone with the 'one over 8 rule' which has outraged fans of Wolves and Swindon. Not one single fan will be added by this rule, but you can guarantee it will cause more to once again.. walk away.

Edited November 28, 2017 by BWitcher

[Vince]

If nothing changes, and soon I would suggest, there will be less tracks for them to use that equipment on, less opportunities to earn money and therefore not much chance of breaking even...

 

Something has to give....

 

For me, semi pro Speedway is the only way the Sport in this country can survive and prosper..

 

It's ironic that in the 'Halcyon days' of the sport in Britain, when crowds were at the biggest, the majority of riders were semi pro. Riders happy earning "more in one night riding Speedway than I do in a month in the factory"...

 

Now when crowds are pretty dire at most tracks we have more full time pros than ever. Even at NL level!!?

 

The equation simply doesn't work..

 

Depends on your definition of semi pro I guess but the majority of the riders you see as pro's would like to take away more in one night than they could in a month in a factory, in fact many would be happy to end up with what they could earn in a factory full stop.

 

Relatively the money on offer in decades back was a lot higher than it is now, only a couple of months ago I was talking to an ex top line rider who when he started could earn more from a second half than he could in a week as an apprentice when he first started out. Now these kids travel miles for that second half and consider themselves lucky to get a ride, absolutely no chance of payment. NL riders in the main pay to ride, the exceptions are nowhere near making an entire living out of the sport. In fact very few make what could be considered a decent annual wage out of the sport as a whole and unlike most motor sports you can't just pop along on a Sunday and choose whether to ride or not depending on the weather and track conditions.

 

The world has changed and the days when jobs that fitted in around Speedway were easily available are far behind us as are bosses who will accept the inevitable injuries. Fixed nights may well help in some respects but there just aren't jobs available to these lads where they finish at 5 to make home matches even if they ride very locally let alone companies that will let you take all your holidays in single or half days plus a few at short notice.

[moxey63]

I remember the late Colin Hill, promoter at Exeter for many years, used to make small profits because he didn't indulge in throwing money about but put out a team that was generally competitive...certainly at home.

 

Promotions in the past have spent serious amounts to bring success on track but often end up rueing the fact when finances don't add up at the season's end.

 

I can't remember the specific team that won the championship one season but fans didn't flock in any greater numbers to justify the outlay.

 

I guess it's trying to get the balance right...easier said than done!

 

Speedway approaches its 90th year. It doesn't have the money to splash out on advertising, and so, even after 20 years of live speedway on our screens I'm guessing crowds are lower than they were in the mid-90s. Therefore, as Colin Hill did, why doesn't it live within its means. Why chase the stay-away star names who won't increase the gates to cover the outlay? Why not manage with what we have?

 

I see live TV speedway is in the balance, in the UK, which over time has probably stopped many attending their local track and hasn't brought in newcomers. Some will say they still attend despite live TV speedway, so naturally, I didn't mean those. A click of a pad, and you can watch a live TV match most nights. Speedway on TV has been tried, live speedway, and the cut in revenue offered by companies must be the right time to bin the idea altogether, maybe a highlights package instead.

 

Live speedway is thrown at us from all angles. You don't have to leave your armchair. When the team ethic of pulling you to your local track has vanished, surely the appeal of staying in the warmth, the keeping your cash in your pocket and still watching your "fix" is outweighing, for some, the actual benefit that live speedway does. I bet it isn't the non-speedway fans that watch it on TV; and, another point, I often wonder, for example, why the Cardiff GP is advertised during speedway programmes, when surely it's non-speedway fans we need to attract. The speedway fans who watch know all about the Cardiff GP.

Edited November 28, 2017 by moxey63

[BWitcher]

Live speedway has been utterly wasted.

 

Only last season with BT did they 'begin' to grasp the concept.

 

EVERY single live tv meeting should have been reduced entrance to ensure a healthy, vibrant crowd so anyone tuning in on TV sees it's a 'happening' event.

 

Instead they see a sparse crowd week in week out which immediately tells them not to bother.

[Halifaxtiger]

Live speedway has been utterly wasted.

 

Only last season with BT did they 'begin' to grasp the concept.

 

EVERY single live tv meeting should have been reduced entrance to ensure a healthy, vibrant crowd so anyone tuning in on TV sees it's a 'happening' event.

 

Instead they see a sparse crowd week in week out which immediately tells them not to bother.

 

Not true.

 

Belle Vue's crowd for the TV match against Wolverhampton was by far their biggest of the season.

 

To be fair, it was reduced entry and promotional work was undertaken before hand.

[moxey63]

 

Not true.

 

Belle Vue's crowd for the TV match against Wolverhampton was by far their biggest of the season.

 

To be fair, it was reduced entry and promotional work was undertaken before hand.

To be fair, BeWitcher did state that.

Live speedway has been utterly wasted.

 

Only last season with BT did they 'begin' to grasp the concept.

 

EVERY single live tv meeting should have been reduced entrance to ensure a healthy, vibrant crowd so anyone tuning in on TV sees it's a 'happening' event.

 

Instead they see a sparse crowd week in week out which immediately tells them not to bother.

 

We all remember the first years of SKY - painted faces, carnival atmosphere. But we couldn't keep that up, otherwise it'd be like dart ffs. Perhaps reduced admission... perhaps showing the match later in edited form, even using the likes of Clean Cuts Sport footage or other companies, which is clear picture quality and transfers well to TV.

 

We all thought, or I certainly did, that speedway on Tv would see the return of crowds matched by the 70s. But it did not happen. In fact, that the matches were restricted to satellite TV and didn't put the sport out there to the full audience. And I'd say those who had satellite TV, watched speedway because they WERE speedway fans, MOST subscribing because speedway was on Live.

 

We have to be realistic. Speedway gained such an audience in the past, because there wasn't other attractions pulling from all directions. I mean, World Of Sport put the sport out there in the 70s, just the two channels (If BBC2 wasn't on testcard). But how many bored people watched that, because there was nothing else to watch? It could have spillt over into attendances at tracks... nothing to do, so some went along to speedway. We get bored now after a few seconds of anything... I mean, you'll grab a tablet or phone, the first moment your hands become free.

Edited November 28, 2017 by moxey63

[BWitcher]

 

Not true.

 

Belle Vue's crowd for the TV match against Wolverhampton was by far their biggest of the season.

 

To be fair, it was reduced entry and promotional work was undertaken before hand.

 

That's what I said?

 

Last season they began to approach tv meetings in the correct manner, however for 95% of the previous 20 years they didn't.

To be fair, BeWitcher did state that.

 

We all remember the first years of SKY - painted faces, carnival atmosphere. But we couldn't keep that up, otherwise it'd be like dart ffs.

 

'Otherwise it'd be like darts ffs'.

 

Yes, we don't want attendances to grow from a few hundred to several thousand +... I mean.. ffs!

[steve roberts]

To be fair, BeWitcher did state that.

 

We all remember the first years of SKY - painted faces, carnival atmosphere. But we couldn't keep that up, otherwise it'd be like dart ffs. Perhaps reduced admission... perhaps showing the match later in edited form, even using the likes of Clean Cuts Sport footage or other companies, which is clear picture quality and transfers well to TV.

 

We all thought, or I certainly did, that speedway on Tv would see the return of crowds matched by the 70s. But it did not happen. In fact, that the matches were restricted to satellite TV and didn't put the sport out there to the full audience. And I'd say those who had satellite TV, watched speedway because they WERE speedway fans, MOST subscribing because speedway was on Live.

 

We have to be realistic. Speedway gained such an audience in the past, because there wasn't other attractions pulling from all directions. I mean, World Of Sport put the sport out there in the 70s, just the two channels (If BBC2 wasn't on testcard). But how many bored people watched that, because there was nothing else to watch? It could have spillt over into attendances at tracks... nothing to do, so some went along to speedway. We get bored now after a few seconds of anything... I mean, you'll grab a tablet or phone, the first moment your hands become free.

...I remember saying at the time that it wouldn't necessarily bring more people thru' the turnstiles but was constantly shouted down.

 

A friend of mine who lived closed to Cowley Stadium wouldn't bother attending the meeting live when broadcast from Oxford preferring to watch it from the comfort of his home.

[moxey63]

 

That's what I said?

 

Last season they began to approach tv meetings in the correct manner, however for 95% of the previous 20 years they didn't.

 

'Otherwise it'd be like darts ffs'.

 

Yes, we don't want attendances to grow from a few hundred to several thousand +... I mean.. ffs!

 

Oh my dear! Now I've seen it all! You are disagreeing with me... agreeing with you. You really are something, BeWitcher! ("Oh no I'm Not!").

 

No, we don't want it like darts. An audience plied with drink is not something I'd like to watch a serious sport. Come on Bewitcher, you know what I mean. The crowd is good, the noise, but are they there for the sport.. or the booze? If you want a speedway audience to mirror that, then we have come to something.

...I remember saying at the time that it wouldn't necessarily bring more people thru' the turnstiles but was constantly shouted down.

 

A friend of mine who lived closed to Cowley Stadium wouldn't bother attending the meeting live when broadcast from Oxford preferring to watch it from the comfort of his home.

BeWitcher would say otherwise (just saying).

Edited November 28, 2017 by moxey63