Baldyman Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 I never try and justify any rules to any non speedway fan...the reason for this is no one ever asks. They don't care cos they follow their own sports they find interesting. if in your case you do find yourself explaining rules, then explaining your start line one they would find strange..cos I'm sure any one that doesn't follow speedway would say the same thing..which is why don't they sit stil until the tapes go up...no need to make something so simple so complicated. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 I never try and justify any rules to any non speedway fan...the reason for this is no one ever asks. They don't care cos they follow their own sports they find interesting. if in your case you do find yourself explaining rules, then explaining your start line one they would find strange..cos I'm sure any one that doesn't follow speedway would say the same thing..which is why don't they sit stil until the tapes go up...no need to make something so simple so complicated. Â We talk about getting Joe Public interested, the issues you're stated must be the main reasons that kills anyone whose remotely interested in attending. Never could you imagine something, so straight forward , be as complex at it is. Â We have 4 riders, racing 4 laps. The fastest rider wins and get 3 points. He who finishes 2nd get 2 points, 3rd place only gets 1point. Â The team who accumulates the most points wins... Do we need any more ??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Professional Presentation 7.15pm Racing starts Prompt 7.30pm Track graded 7 mins after heat 4. Interval and track grading 15 mins after heat 10 Meeting Finish 9pm sharp. Riders available to mingle with fans till 9.30 then Finish....  Time to go home.....  absolutely spot on - on a Wednesday night at Kings Lynn this is just what’s needed with an early start at work or School the next day it would definitely encourage more fans to attend- the slightest thing put us off going weather being one of them slightest hint of rain we stay home and if I’ve had a busy day at work I think can I be bothered to stand around till 10pm for what is effectively 15 minuets of entertainment I use that term loosely. 7.30 first race would definitely encourage more to attend and some urgency shown to keep the meeting moving along as well . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 I think a 7:45pm start is fair enough, I would struggle to arrive for half seven due to work so that quarter of an hour is invaluable and I would suspect others are in the same boat. However it could still be over and done with in 75-90 minutes which is plenty of time for fifteen races, some grading and even a short interval if the meeting is being run properly. Â We all know that a large part of the 'dragging on' is about bar and junk food takings but surely a healthier crowd would spend more even if they are in the stadium for less time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) absolutely spot on - on a Wednesday night at Kings Lynn this is just what’s needed with an early start at work or School the next day it would definitely encourage more fans to attend- the slightest thing put us off going weather being one of them slightest hint of rain we stay home and if I’ve had a busy day at work I think can I be bothered to stand around till 10pm for what is effectively 15 minuets of entertainment I use that term loosely. 7.30 first race would definitely encourage more to attend and some urgency shown to keep the meeting moving along as well .  So, what is it that stops KLS and most other promotions from putting on their show in this way? It has to be that the the paying public standing on the terraces are of no concern, after they have paid to get in. It has to be that, doesn't it? Even the incentive of falling crowds almost everywhere, doesn't seem to make the BSPA take presentation of their product ( 15 mins of racing - maybe 4 mins of exciting close racing ) seriously enough to improve it.  Rules were introduced about limiting "gardening at the tapes" and were never properly enforced and within a few matches faded away to the same old, same old - dragging on. Edited November 12, 2017 by waytogo28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 So, what is it that stops KLS and most other promotions from putting on their show in this way? It has to be that the the paying public standing on the terraces are of no concern, after they have paid to get in. It has to be that, doesn't it? Even the incentive of falling crowds almost everywhere, doesn't seem to make the BSPA take presentation of their product ( 15 mins of racing - maybe 4 mins of exciting close racing ) seriously enough to improve it.  Rules were introduced about limiting "gardening at the tapes" and were never properly enforced and within a few matches faded away to the same old, same old - dragging on. definitely on a week night presentation should be slick and the meetings should be done and dusted by 9-15 at the latest -fans wouldn’t feel cheated by this 15 heats is 15 heats if it’s spread over 90 mins or 120 mins it’s still 15 heats - sometimes a KL it’s the total lack of urgency that gets me . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Haza, on 12 Nov 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:definitely on a week night presentation should be slick and the meetings should be done and dusted by 9-15 at the latest -fans wouldn’t feel cheated by this 15 heats is 15 heats if it’s spread over 90 mins or 120 mins it’s still 15 heats - sometimes a KL it’s the total lack of urgency that gets me . I agree with 100% , I was talking to a bloke at football yesterday a Lions supporter & if the midweek race nights are bought in he will not take his 3 school age children on a school night with the risk of them not getting to bed by 10-30 . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 I agree with 100% , I was talking to a bloke at football yesterday a Lions supporter & if the midweek race nights are bought in he will not take his 3 school age children on a school night with the risk of them not getting to bed by 10-30 . those 3 school age children are the exact age group clubs need to look after they are the future long term fan - if meetings started 7-30 a 9-15 finnish should be the norm - I’ve friends that’s stopped going basically because they start work 4 or 5am again they don’t want to be there at 10-30 pm - clubs soon have to take notice of fans needs or there will be no fans . 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Roads Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Whilst we must accept that not all family's will be able to attend a mid week meeting due to school timings I take my kids to leicester and the family stand is full of 1000s of kids. Games normally finish 9.30 then you have to exit the stadium car ride home which normally means 10.20ish home. We need to absolutely look at the future for bringing in younger supporters but let's remember its a so called summer sport so for x% of season it will be the holidays. Set race nights mean structure hopefully settled teams. What I'm saying is if we don't try we will never know in my opinion. Let's see what the AGM brings.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Observer Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Whilst we must accept that not all family's will be able to attend a mid week meeting due to school timings I take my kids to leicester and the family stand is full of 1000s of kids. Really? There's not even a 1,000 seats. Seriously though, I agree that the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow and we need to encourage many more to attend. The clubs having young riders as mascots works really well as they're of similar ages and can relate to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris116 Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) There are two reasonably simply ways to stop gardening at the tapes. Â 1) Concrete starting area, like tracks used to have. Never saw a rider try to dig up a concrete starting grid! Â 2) A line ten feet from the tapes. Riders are not allowed over that line until the start marshall gives them a signal and then they are only allowed to move forward to the tapes with NO backing up allowed. Any rider who does not go straight from the line to the tapes and stop will be put on 15 yard hadicap. Â (1) would mean a cost to every track so (2) may be preferred by promotors but (1) does solve the problem with no chance of gardening! Edited November 13, 2017 by Chris116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Â Spot on with all of that. However, one small snag is that promoters in general, do NOT want the meetings over by 9pm. They want people to be standing around, waiting and slightly bored so they will then go and spend more money in the bars/snack bars etc whilst there is nothing going on and the evening is dragging. For a promoter, the longer they have the punters in the stadium, the more money they will take on the food/drink/souvenirs etc they dont want them in and out within 90 mins or so!! (which is still too long for it to last with only 15 mins of actual racing!) Another fallacy. Most Stadiums own the food and drinks facility, so no benefit to the Speedway Promotion. Plenty of time to get merchandise during a meeting, making the fans stay longer does not increase the takings. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Really? There's not even a 1,000 seats. Â Â I'm presuming he means Leicester City Football not Speedway. Â Â Â Chris 116..........1) Concrete starting area, like tracks used to have. Never saw a rider try to dig up a concrete starting grid! Â No but they could break their back if they flip over. Saw this happen at Leicester but at the old Blackbird Road track years ago when they did have concrete. Edited November 13, 2017 by Gemini 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Professional Presentation 7.15pm Racing starts Prompt 7.30pm Track graded 7 mins after heat 4. Interval and track grading 15 mins after heat 10 Meeting Finish 9pm sharp. Riders available to mingle with fans till 9.30 then Finish.... Â Time to go home..... Â There were many thoughts behind the above schedule I posted. Thinking along the lines, the sport wants to appeal to more families, If racing starting prompt at 7.30 gives the opportunity for the match to finish by 9pm. when those with younger children could leave early. The connection with the riders is very important. Having a specific period where all riders were available to answer questions, having photo taken would be invaluable to the sustainability of the sport. This could take place in a designated area, somewhere easily excessable for both fans and riders. Could even bring along a mechanic as well. If this was done properly and finished by 9-30, it wouldn't interfere with riders timetable as some meetings drag on far longer than that now.... Those wanting a longer evening, can always go along to the shops and bars and talk speedway with many others like themselves. An after match meeting in the bar, is another way of connecting with the fans, but only if the meeting has been run efficiently. At Lynn we stand around all night because of slow organisation, and long track preparation, then expect us to stay on longer when all you want to do is get home ... If there was additional junior races to be run, these could start at 9.30. There would be plenty of time before the watershed of 10pm noise restrictions... Â With a little bit of thought, the sport could be made far more appealing then it is at present.......... But directives need to be done from the top at all levels..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 GRW 123 wrote " With a little bit of thought, the sport could be made far more appealing then it is at present.......... But directives need to be done from the top at all levels" Â And it is that "little bit of thought" that has been missing from the BSPA and the AGM for at least 20 years . It is far to inward looking and seems incapable of stepping outside it's comfort zone and taking a look at the sport, as if from the outside. The fans views and well meant feedback have been completely ignored for at least the last decade, as if they are of little value and the gate money is inconsequential. With the Sky cash stream and sponsors and advertisers maybe the fans were less important? Â The way that other sports have dealt with a changing society and technology and re-invented themselves has been ignored by the BSPA to a large extent and they have contented themselves with minor rule changing that no-one outside the sport even noticed ( and many fan's disagreed with ). What did that "brainwave" of name changing the leagues last year achieve? If it has attracted a major sponsor - then Hooray! Perhaps they are going to announce that very soon? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Rich Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 There are some great ideas on this forum, I wonder if any of the "promoters" have read them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytsejam Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Another fallacy. Most Stadiums own the food and drinks facility, so no benefit to the Speedway Promotion. Plenty of time to get merchandise during a meeting, making the fans stay longer does not increase the takings. Â Utter rubbish. I know for a fact that at Lynn Chapman gets the receipts from the bars and snacks and so I would imagine that is the case at some other tracks too, so try again please and give me another reason if mine isn't relevant, why most meetings drag on for sooooooooooooooo long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited)  Utter rubbish. I know for a fact that at Lynn Chapman gets the receipts from the bars and snacks and so I would imagine that is the case at some other tracks too, so try again please and give me another reason if mine isn't relevant, why most meetings drag on for sooooooooooooooo long. i would think the bar and cafe takings are available to only the minority of tracks; KL, Redcar, buxton, Somerset mbe Plymouth err.... i thnk thats it  edit maybe Glasgow, Rye House Edited November 13, 2017 by ch958 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Â Utter rubbish. I know for a fact that at Lynn Chapman gets the receipts from the bars and snacks and so I would imagine that is the case at some other tracks too, so try again please and give me another reason if mine isn't relevant, why most meetings drag on for sooooooooooooooo long. Kings Lynn might, so they can stretch out their meetings and pi## off fans on cold nights, some of whom will not return, but the majority of clubs do not get the refreshment and bar takings, the stadium owners do. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytsejam Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Kings Lynn might, so they can stretch out their meetings and pi## off fans on cold nights, some of whom will not return, but the majority of clubs do not get the refreshment and bar takings, the stadium owners do. Â Well OK then, not many other tracks probably have the same excuse but I was basing my answer on my experiences at Lynn and also in reply to several people who were citing Lynn as an example of where the meetings are terribly dragged out. I still really can't see the benefits of purposly dragging out a meeting for any other reasons than what I have stated though but accept that this WON'T be the reason at SOME tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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