Catalan Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 MF pushed for Wednesdays as an alternative only after it became apparent that 2 of the 3 Thursday Championship clubs threatened not to run if Thursdays became a Premiership fixed night!!! Easier to moan about Matt than accept he was actually trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YerRopes Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 It is if your name's Thorssell or Morris!! Or if you happen to be a supporter of Wolves or Swindon ! I have watched Nick Morris since he first rode for the Robins, he has been loyal to Swindon and progressed enormously ! i would imagine that most fans want him to stay and no doubt he would like to aswell 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 So they could have gone Thursdays as was the original idea. Then Ipswich shut and question marks over Redcar and Sheffield, maybe that was why Ford proposed Wednesday's. It makes no difference Poole run Wednesday or Thursday. So are we being blackmailed by Ipswich ? , who are dictating their preferences.... Surely the question here is why teams like Ipswich and Sheffield prefer to be a big fish in a little pond rather than compete with the best available. If the championship is so sought after, why not run the Premiership on the similar lines. The last thing the sport wants is to have 2 separate entities, each competing for their own importance. We argue the sport is not taken seriously, yet we continue to fuel the ideas that project this image. There is talk of a 5 yr plan but surely the first priority is to run the sport on a progressive structure. You cant allow teams to dictate their existence, It's like allowing Arsenal to compete in the 2nd division. We experienced this at Lynn and most of the success gained always had that hollow feel attached to it, knowing we were only playing in a small pond.... When those fixed race night were first mentioned, it was thought Thursday was a far better option than Wednesday's because of them clashing with Danish league. Now it seems the whole programme has had to be adjusted, because of 2 teams refused to comply.... This sport will never move forward, until all the teams are of one unanimous body... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) Or if you happen to be a supporter of Wolves or Swindon ! I have watched Nick Morris since he first rode for the Robins, he has been loyal to Swindon and progressed enormously ! i would imagine that most fans want him to stay and no doubt he would like to aswell Thorssell was tweeting yesterday that he is worried about the over 8 rule. He wants to ride in the UK and wants to ride for Wolves. The problem here is that these are not like the top riders of old, as mentioned elsewhere. It's not a Hancock / Hamill or was Holder / Ward. These are riders who stuck with a much weakened league last year and, because of that, have need up with averages a point above the likes of Zagar, Woffinden, Kildemand etc who rode in a stronger league and with a different race format. That is why this is wrong in this particular year. It's not just about team strength. So are we being blackmailed by Ipswich ? .. Wouldn't be the first time. Edited November 23, 2017 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickitov Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 So are we being blackmailed by Ipswich ? , who are dictating their preferences.... Surely the question here is why teams like Ipswich and Sheffield prefer to be a big fish in a little pond rather than compete with the best available. If the championship is so sought after, why not run the Premiership on the similar lines. The last thing the sport wants is to have 2 separate entities, each competing for their own importance. We argue the sport is not taken seriously, yet we continue to fuel the ideas that project this image. There is talk of a 5 yr plan but surely the first priority is to run the sport on a progressive structure. You cant allow teams to dictate their existence, It's like allowing Arsenal to compete in the 2nd division. We experienced this at Lynn and most of the success gained always had that hollow feel attached to it, knowing we were only playing in a small pond.... When those fixed race night were first mentioned, it was thought Thursday was a far better option than Wednesday's because of them clashing with Danish league. Now it seems the whole programme has had to be adjusted, because of 2 teams refused to comply.... This sport will never move forward, until all the teams are of one unanimous body... Here lies the problem. Ipswich and one other team by the sounds of it are more interested in their own team than the sport as a whole. Thursday's should have been the only option if the sport wanted to progress. Interesting to read in the SS that Rossiter believes it should have been Thursday's and that it's likely to change in 2019. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Thorssell was tweeting yesterday that he is worried about the over 8 rule. He wants to ride in the UK and wants to ride for Wolves. The problem here is that these are not like the top riders of old, as mentioned elsewhere. It's not a Hancock / Hamill or was Holder / Ward. These are riders who stuck with a much weakened league last year and, because of that, have need up with averages a point above the likes of Zagar, Woffinden, Kildemand etc who rode in a stronger league and with a different race format. That is why this is wrong in this particular year. It's not just about team strength. We could have JD/PK or JD/MZ or JD/TW probably stronger combos than JD/NM, using up less points within the 42.5 limit, most likely be a 12th hour rule change saying only 1 current GP rider, you would think those that voted for this silly rule would prefer Swindon to burn points on JD/NM than potentially having two top line GP riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 We could have JD/PK or JD/MZ or JD/TW probably stronger combos than JD/NM, using up less points within the 42.5 limit, most likely be a 12th hour rule change saying only 1 current GP rider, you would think those that voted for this silly rule would prefer Swindon to burn points on JD/NM than potentially having two top line GP riders. If the BSPA were to allow any team now to field JD/PK or JD/MZ or JD/TW it would be total madness, But it would sure highlight the stupidity of that '1 over 8' rule.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Why would it be total madness please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Why would it be total madness please?I guess if it has to be explained then you think there is nothing wrong with having one of the top 16 riders in the world replace a rider not currently at the same level as them! So Nick Morris is "too good" to ride in the same team as Doyley but better quality riders from the SGP can - and you can't see the madness? Edited November 24, 2017 by Steve0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 I think we were looking at it from different angles, I can see your point and it wouldn't be great if Morris is out of a job. But as far as employing Zagar, Kildemand or Woffinden instead I'd say good luck to Swindon or anyone else if they can afford them instead as the eight point rule is a poor one. Hardly madness when we all want to see better riders over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Why would it be total madness please? Please, I would have thought that was obvious. There are far better riders than Morris, who could come in on a crocked average and replace him. The reason Morris's average to so high was because he rode last year in a weak league. Riders such as Woffy, Zagar, PK, all better than Morris, still have a relative lower score because they didn't ride. Allowing them to compete on them old scores would be insult to the riders who did ride last year....... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 See my above post. The point I was making is that we don't want to be excluding more quality riders from our league, wouldn't be fair to stop Swindon and Wolves using their second highest averaging riders and then prevent them using another quality rider in their place. I think all three of us can agree that the eight point rule is daft. Hope you can see what I'm getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) So are we being blackmailed by Ipswich ? , who are dictating their preferences.... Surely the question here is why teams like Ipswich and Sheffield prefer to be a big fish in a little pond rather than compete with the best available. If the championship is so sought after, why not run the Premiership on the similar lines. The last thing the sport wants is to have 2 separate entities, each competing for their own importance. We argue the sport is not taken seriously, yet we continue to fuel the ideas that project this image. There is talk of a 5 yr plan but surely the first priority is to run the sport on a progressive structure. You cant allow teams to dictate their existence, It's like allowing Arsenal to compete in the 2nd division. We experienced this at Lynn and most of the success gained always had that hollow feel attached to it, knowing we were only playing in a small pond.... When those fixed race night were first mentioned, it was thought Thursday was a far better option than Wednesday's because of them clashing with Danish league. Now it seems the whole programme has had to be adjusted, because of 2 teams refused to comply.... This sport will never move forward, until all the teams are of one unanimous body... Thorssell was tweeting yesterday that he is worried about the over 8 rule. He wants to ride in the UK and wants to ride for Wolves. The problem here is that these are not like the top riders of old, as mentioned elsewhere. It's not a Hancock / Hamill or was Holder / Ward. These are riders who stuck with a much weakened league last year and, because of that, have need up with averages a point above the likes of Zagar, Woffinden, Kildemand etc who rode in a stronger league and with a different race format. That is why this is wrong in this particular year. It's not just about team strength. Wouldn't be the first time. If memory serves wasn't it Ipswich who were instrumental in the dropping of the old Tactical Substitution rules (and hence the introduction of the TR rule) as they couldn't afford the extra points money Nicholls was costing them? Edited November 24, 2017 by Wolfsbane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 If memory serves wasn't it Ipswich who were instrumental in the dropping of the old Tactical Substitution rules (and hence the introduction of the TR rule) as they couldn't afford the extra points money Nicholls was costing them? That's how I remember it, yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 What I see is a fudge of compromises, trade-offs and a rift between the two leagues which has been patched over temporarily. Its a case of most have got what they didn't ideally want, and some have got what they wanted. Next year's horse trading will just rake up the compromises made this time as favours reckoned to be owed are called in. Democracy in action!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) I think the Championship have ended up with pretty much everything they could have wished for from the AGM (more of them to vote things through I guess) and once again its the Premiership that is made to suffer with stupid rules that once again pander to the weaker teams!! Even the MC has more SGBC reps on it. Lets hope that the future of the whole sport continues to be the aim rather than the future of the Championship and we get to see more stronger riders gracing the Premiership at some point. Edited November 24, 2017 by Skidder1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perton Wolf Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 I think the Championship have ended up with pretty much everything they could have wished for from the AGM (more of them to vote things through I guess) and once again its the Premiership that is made to suffer with stupid rules that once again pander to the weaker teams!! Even the MC has more SGBC reps on it. Lets hope that the future of the whole sport continues to be the aim rather than the future of the Championship and we get to see more stronger riders gracing the Premiership at some point. Indeed - madness how the Premiership is consistently forced to pander to the Championship. If we spent more time promoting the top division of Speedway then maybe it would be in a better place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Premiership clubs need 4 promoters just to stand a chance against the Championship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 If the BSPA were to allow any team now to field JD/PK or JD/MZ or JD/TW it would be total madness, But it would sure highlight the stupidity of that '1 over 8' rule.... The motivation to only allow 1 rider of 8 strikes me to be born out of spite, and to drag the top teams down to the bottom, Swindon could quite easily have a stronger top two using up less points, appears like a hasty decision with little thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 The motivation to only allow 1 rider of 8 strikes me to be born out of spite, and to drag the top teams down to the bottom, Swindon could quite easily have a stronger top two using up less points, appears like a hasty decision with little thought. Thats the BSPA for you Drink first talk afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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