Swc 2018

[Trees]

Have the fans not been calling for a World Pairs comp one year and Team comp the next?

[Humphrey Appleby]

But when they started and for a couple of years they used national teams just as you suggest doing now.

Still a damp squib for most folk.

I reckon it would be better as a club competition or representing leagues, notwithstanding the difficulties of working out who rides for which team.

 

But it still comes back to the fact that privately promoted championships shouldnt be sanctioned unless the wider sport is also financially benefitting.

[Ghostwalker]

 

Agree that it is in that state now.

 

But when they started and for a couple of years they used national teams just as you suggest doing now.

Still a damp squib for most folk.

 

Correct and they didn't choose to abandon national teams either but was not allowed to continue to use them.

I think the problem with pairs competitions is that the pair riding skill is more or less extinct among today's riders.

Sometimes they can pull it off but usually they aren't able to.

[Bavarian]

What a terribly sad decision if the FIM replaces the current SWC with a pairs competiton. Exactly the same mistake they made in the mid-90s, when they merged the then World Pairs with the then World Team Cup, instead of keeping both competitons alive and alternately stage them bi-annually.

[Grand Central]

Correct and they didn't choose to abandon national teams either but was not allowed to continue to use them.

I think the problem with pairs competitions is that the pair riding skill is more or less extinct among today's riders.

Sometimes they can pull it off but usually they aren't able to.

I agree that the change was forced on One Sport.

But the national teams event they ran for two years never really took off anyway, did it?

 

I don't think there is any evidence that a pairs event would fail due to the lack of team riding ability.

If that were the case then normal league racing in Poland and Sweden would be failing for the same reason. And it isn't.

 

The real problem with Pairs meeting s that the public has never really got 'into' them.

There is something about the format that is just not that fulfilling.

They fall between a rock and a hard place; not individual nor team. They are neither Arthur or Martha.

 

Whereas the TV audience feedback had always been very 'pro' the SWC most years.

And the excitement on the BSF has always been quite vocal despite the Joker.

Even though track attendances may not have held up for anything but the final.

 

A one off pairs event may be a bit of a novelty, for some.

But I do not see it filling that 'mid season' break in the SGP calendar.

At least nowhere near as effectively as the SWC has done so well, so often.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Grand Central

[Humphrey Appleby]

The real problem with Pairs meeting s that the public has never really got 'into' them.

There is something about the format that is just not that fulfilling.

They fall between a rock and a hard place; not individual nor team. They are neither Arthur or Martha.

The problem with the 7-pair, 21-heat format is your team is only riding once every 3-4 heats. With the SWC, your team is represented in every heat, which is perhaps why the 4TT format riding in pairs was dropped (plus the fact that two teams meeting in one heat can potentially collude).

 

But my main objection is that a pair or even 3 riders doesn't not really constitute a 'team', or benefit the countries with strength in depth as it should.

 

The SWC/WTC has usually been the most interesting competition down the years, even if it doesn't get the interest it should.

[Grand Central]

The problem with the 7-pair, 21-heat format is your team is only riding once every 3-4 heats. With the SWC, your team is represented in every heat, which is perhaps why the 4TT format riding in pairs was dropped (plus the fact that two teams meeting in one heat can potentially collude).But my main objection is that a pair or even 3 riders doesn't not really constitute a 'team', or benefit the countries with strength in depth as it should.The SWC/WTC has usually been the most interesting competition down the years, even if it doesn't get the interest it should.

I think that is all pretty much spot for on.

 

The great thing about the SWC is that everyone has always had the same number of rides as all other teams.

Every race the score is seen as being the reality of where the competition stands.

The programme just works.

 

Pairs events are always all over the place in the programme and you never really get that tension from the race by race scoring that has been so apparent in the SWC.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Grand Central

[RPNY]

The problem with the 7-pair, 21-heat format is your team is only riding once every 3-4 heats. With the SWC, your team is represented in every heat, which is perhaps why the 4TT format riding in pairs was dropped (plus the fact that two teams meeting in one heat can potentially collude).

 

But my main objection is that a pair or even 3 riders doesn't not really constitute a 'team', or benefit the countries with strength in depth as it should.

 

The SWC/WTC has usually been the most interesting competition down the years, even if it doesn't get the interest it should.

They are good points. Having your team represented in every heat is very important as a spectacle. 2016 at Belle Vue, it was amazing atmosphere after Tai won his Joker ride then King and Cook won their rides, you just couldn't wait for the next heat.

With regards to potential collusion, the Aussies did that 2000, stopped GB from winning. (another reason I never want them to win anything!)

[Bavarian]

FIM should rather try this pairs system for their ill-born WSL World Speedway League (if that will ever get off the ground)

 

Would give seven Club Champions from Polish, British, Swedish, Danish, Russian, German, and Czech leageus a chance to participate and with only three riders per team would ease the problem of riders on the books of two or more of those league clubs.

 

But they should not be allowed to tamper the concept of the SWC

[Humphrey Appleby]

FIM should rather try this pairs system for their ill-born WSL World Speedway League (if that will ever get off the ground)

And that's the thing - the FIM allow one of their premier competitions to be devalued by turning it into a glorified best pairs, yet allow the creation of all sorts of mickey mouse events.

 

BSI should be told very firmly that 4TT format needs to stay, even if it means re-organising some rounds. For example, you could run the two Semi-Finals as a double-header, and then the Last Chance and Final together. That way you'd potentially get 8 sets of fans at one meeting, whilst always being assured of the host nation(s) being involved.

 

Or if it's a competitive issue, go back to the old league 'type' system. Going back to a pairs format doesn't show much imagination and would be a retrograde step.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[New Science]

You could greatly improve the current World Cup format by seeding the hosts to the race off instead of the Final

[Fromafar]

agree

[Bavarian]

Apparently the FIM is unable to find a promoter (outside Poland) willing and able to host the 2018 SWC Race-Off and Final under the current format. Manchester was first choice, but it seems the problem here is all about finance. How poor is this?

[Humphrey Appleby]

Apparently the FIM is unable to find a promoter (outside Poland) willing and able to host the 2018 SWC Race-Off and Final under the current format. Manchester was first choice, but it seems the problem here is all about finance. How poor is this?

Isn't BSI responsible for these events?

[RPNY]

Surprised by that, it worked well in 2016. I think alternating the competition from Pairs to SWC year on year is a good solution. I love the SWC but it's just becoming slightly stale, few GP riders using it as an excuse to have a mid summer break. Changing it up every other year might help. I bet Hancock would ride if he thought there was more chance of being on the podium...

[PHILIPRISING]

Isn't BSI responsible for these events?

IT'S a joint effort

[Fromafar]

It needs to be structured so as the best 4 Teams are in the final.

[iris123]

WITH respect, the One Sport version is for corporate teams not national ones. Stick a Danish, Polish, Swedish and hopefully British race-jacket on the riders and the outcome could be very different.

As one or two have pointed out,this is really trying to re-write history.As i am sure you know it was a national team event at first but they had to change it.Probably for the reason you have been pointing out for years....that BSI were trumped and wanted to also have a pairs comp,but were too slow off the mark.What is strange is having seen how the One Sport version has followed the attern of previous pairs competitions,they still want to push ahead with the project!!!!

[Mark]

Agree with those who say the Poles will clean up for next few years but Manchester showed that away from home its a much closer run thing. Lets have the swc somewhere else other than Poland and no wild card to the final for a weaker home nation. Four best teams to be in the final please.

Edited October 31, 2017 by marky

[iris123]

Agree with those who say the Poles will clean up for next few years but Nanchester showed that away from home its a much closer run thing. Lets have the swc somewhere else other than Poland and no wild card to the final for a weaker home nation. Four best teams to be in the final please.

That seems to be utopia.Maybe you missed the bit Phil posted about nobody other than Poland wanting to host the SWC final rounds?At least not on the terms offered.And you can bet that one of the terms the host promoter will want is that the home team is given a wild card or they run the risk of getting into big financial trouble.Probably a big part of the problem in running it elsewhere is most think Poland are odds on,the fans think so too,and so it is a competition for the lesser places.Agreeing to host the finals and then not even having the home team in just isn't going to happen.......