OldRacer Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 20 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: He explained that he, and no doubt others, liked having a partner in the same race and that as a pair you could try and help one another. I prefer watching races where teammates can work together, or noting which pairs won't! It's adds a very entertaining tactical element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 hours ago, orion said: Never seen anyone on here moan about it ..in fact it's enjoy by most ..the bottom line is the new format is a cost cutting exercise nothing more EXPLAIN how it is cost cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Col said: Tatum may have loved riding in them, we hated watching it. As fans.. We will not flock to this rehashed SWC as we did the tried and tested, but oh Well Poland are going to win again event we have loved for the last 10+ years. FANS HATE THE PAIRS FORMAT. Put me in charge of the SWC, I have limited organisation & marketing skills but I couldn't fail to make it better than a one of pairs event. ARE you the self-appointed spokesperson for speedway fans everywhere? You no more know what fans across Europe (it isn't only the British that are involved) think than I do. If no one bothers to attend in June then your argument will carry significantly more weight. If they turn up in droves then you will be proved wrong. Until then ... Edited December 13, 2017 by PHILIPRISING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: ARE you the self-appointed spokesperson fir speedway fans everywhere? You no more know what fans across Europe (it isn't only the British that are involved) think I do. If no one bothers to attend in June then your argument will carry significantly more weight. If they turn up in droves then you will be proved wrong. Until then ... If they haven't been turning up for the SWC in droves, I can't see why they'd turn up for a diminished competition in droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: EXPLAIN how it is cost cutting? A best pairs competition will only require 2 or 3 rounds, compared to the 4 or 5 for a 4TT. Similar numbers of riders involved in both a pairs and 4TT meeting, so similar per-round prize money can be offered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: If they haven't been turning up for the SWC in droves, I can't see why they'd turn up for a diminished competition in droves. I REPEAT ... wait and see. Not everyone will see it as "diminished." A major issue for staging countries has been the race-off which even on a Friday rather than a Thursday has not attracted fans in Denmark, Sweden or Poland where, unlike Britain at least, fans are totally dis-interested if their nation isn't competing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: I REPEAT ... wait and see. Not everyone will see it as "diminished." A major issue for staging countries has been the race-off which even on a Friday rather than a Thursday has not attracted fans in Denmark, Sweden or Poland where, unlike Britain at least, fans are totally dis-interested if their nation isn't competing. Yes, but that's because the current format allows for the possibility of the race-off to happen without the host nation. It would be very easy to solve that issue. I think most people would consider a best pairs competition to be a diminished SWC, but let's see... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 20 hours ago, Col said: Tatum may have loved riding in them, we hated watching it. As fans.. We will not flock to this rehashed SWC as we did the tried and tested, but oh Well Poland are going to win again event we have loved for the last 10+ years. FANS HATE THE PAIRS FORMAT. Put me in charge of the SWC, I have limited organisation & marketing skills but I couldn't fail to make it better than a one of pairs event. I don't, I prefer the pairs to the current format. More teams involved and for me it gets interesting watching teams taking points off each other. I also think the pairs format is a good way to get lesser nations like Germany, Italy, Slovakia, Slovenia etc involved as they might get a couple of riders to be competitive but not four or five. Much the same way as Rugby Sevens has brought more international teams into their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 15 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: ARE you the self-appointed spokesperson for speedway fans everywhere? Yes, yes I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Daniel Smith said: The pairs scoring system should be 4-2-1-0 The rider winning should win the heat and will encourage a better battle for the minor places I would suggest this scoring system would be used if one of the aims is to make 'lesser countries' more competitive, even more so if another aim is to help grow the sport in these countries.. USA, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, and Germany all have at least one rider who can win races at the top level, meaning they all should be competitive using this system.. (If Greg bothers to ride obviously!) Edited December 18, 2017 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 13/12/2017 at 9:40 AM, PHILIPRISING said: EXPLAIN how it is cost cutting? 2 riders rather than 4 is going to cut costs quite a lot! If it’s not then BSI and the FIM have messed up badly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, SCB said: 2 riders rather than 4 is going to cut costs quite a lot! If it’s not then BSI and the FIM have messed up badly! THREE riders not four, seven countries not three and some other changes that will increase costs which are yet to be announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said: THREE riders not four, seven countries not three and some other changes that will increase costs which are yet to be announced. I thought there were 5 in each team last year if you include the under 21 rider ....we all know it's a cost cutting exercise so don't TREAT people like they are stupid and stop being a puppet for BSI . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 23 hours ago, mikebv said: I would suggest this scoring system would be used if one of the aims is to make 'lesser countries' more competitive, even more so if another aim is to help grow the sport in these countries.. USA, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, and Germany all have at least one rider who can win races at the top level, meaning they all should be competitive using this system.. How then it is a team competition if you're giving countries with only one decent rider the opportunity to dominate. You might as well combine the SWC with the SGP on that basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 3 hours ago, SCB said: 2 riders rather than 4 is going to cut costs quite a lot! If it’s not then BSI and the FIM have messed up badly! Well assuming the classic 7-pair format and 3 riders in each 'pair', that makes for 21 riders per meeting. The SWC currently has up to 20 per meeting, although I think prize money is just paid as a lump sum on a per-team basis (and isn't very generous). However, the current SWC format needs 4 meetings (plus 1 or 2 qualifiers) and I'm guessing these are insufficiently lucrative, especially the Race-Off if the host nation isn't represented. You can realistically incorporate up 12 teams in just two rounds using a pairs format, whilst guaranteeing that the hosts will be in the Final, and offering the potential to run the whole thing over a weekend. Alternatively, you could have 14 teams split into 2 Semi-Finals, with the top 3 in each going through to meet the host nation in the Final. That requires 3 rounds. No idea though, what the other changes could be that would increase costs, unless they're talking about the prize money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said: How then it is a team competition if you're giving countries with only one decent rider the opportunity to dominate. You might as well combine the SWC with the SGP on that basis. I think the new competition is being set up to help grow the Sport in nations that currently have Speedway but not much chance of ever reaching the SWC final, whilst maybe trying to reduce Poland's huge strength in depth advantage to make the competition less predictable.. For me, a shame the SWC is being changed as it provides the best racing of the year, however I can see the logic of trying to develop the Sport in other nations. And having a 'team' wearing your nations flag in a World Final may help generate interest in these countries.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, mikebv said: I think the new competition is being set up to help grow the Sport in nations that currently have Speedway but not much chance of ever reaching the SWC final, whilst maybe trying to reduce Poland's huge strength in depth advantage to make the competition less predictable.. For me, a shame the SWC is being changed as it provides the best racing of the year, however I can see the logic of trying to develop the Sport in other nations. And having a 'team' wearing your nations flag in a World Final may help generate interest in these countries.... The format has been tried before and did little or nothing to grow the sport. The sport also needs to be focusing on its core markets rather than getting distracted, because it's dying on it's a**e even in the countries that support professional leagues. It's a bit replacing the Football World Cup with a five-a-side tournament in the hope of giving the minnows more chance to be competitive, but all you'd do is disinterest your main audiences, and the minnows will still be outclassed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: THREE riders not four, seven countries not three and some other changes that will increase costs which are yet to be announced. That is just not true. There were FIVE men per SWC team Why would you say otherwise. And only Speedway could be mental enough to call THREE people a PAIR. For all the years that the World Best Pairs operated - which you have repeatedly said yourself was a competition YOU enjoyed - it managed with two men and only had the very occasional time that was reduced to a single man. But If they want or feel they must have three per team then at least show SOME sense and actually call them TRIOS. Edited December 19, 2017 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 I WAS responding to SCB who claimed that having "two riders instead of four" was cost cutting. Anyway, three times seven is still more than four times five. I very much doubt that the word pair will appear in the title of the competition. Two riders from the same country in each race yes but that doesn't specifically make it a "pairs" competition no more than one from each country makes it a singles event. From what I am told, the actual format has never been tried before. And suggesting that it is like replacing soccer's World Cup with a five-a-side tournament is beyond even ridicule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: From what I am told, the actual format has never been tried before. Can only assume then, that the programmed rides of each team will be shared between the 3 riders (thus having 4 programmed rides each assuming 7 teams). Have a recollection that format might have been used in Poland or Sweden before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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