waiheke1 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Why on earth would BSI pay more to run a new comp, in addition to paying for a competition thermy are not running? I dont see how that makes any business sense. The reason for the supposition is because the SWC is arguably the most anticipated week in the speedway season and has now been cast aside in favour of who knows what. As an organisation waiting to make a formal announcement when all other parties have already released information...Im not sure that necessarily comes across as professional? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 At least it won't just be a return to the not very popular traditional Best Pairs System. Reading Casatgna's comments in the Star I guess it will somehow involve junior riders (maybe a 500cc U21 and even an 250cc U16) along with the best senior riders in this Speedway of Nations. I wonder if the FIM will also abandon their Junior U21 World Team Championship, which had even less nations take part than the SWC, and which was almost every year won by Poland ... and which has an equivalent in the European Junior U21 Team Championship ... which again has even less ... and is alway won by ... you know what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Why on earth would BSI pay more to run a new comp, in addition to paying for a competition thermy are not running? I dont see how that makes any business sense. The reason for the supposition is because the SWC is arguably the most anticipated week in the speedway season and has now been cast aside in favour of who knows what. As an organisation waiting to make a formal announcement when all other parties have already released information...Im not sure that necessarily comes across as professional? BECAUSE as far as the FIM are concerned it is a new competition and BSI still hold the SWC rights because that certainly isn't just a thing of the past. Understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomin man 76 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 At least it won't just be a return to the not very popular traditional Best Pairs System. Reading Casatgna's comments in the Star I guess it will somehow involve junior riders (maybe a 500cc U21 and even an 250cc U16) along with the best senior riders in this Speedway of Nations. I wonder if the FIM will also abandon their Junior U21 World Team Championship, which had even less nations take part than the SWC, and which was almost every year won by Poland ... and which has an equivalent in the European Junior U21 Team Championship ... which again has even less ... and is alway won by ... you know what. If Castagna is proposing a mixture of junior riders, to be included alongside senior riders, I cannot see how it will lead to a big jump in participation levels, as there are relatively few countries that have a proper junior development programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 ONE Under 21 rider per country is the most likely scenario I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomin man 76 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 ONE Under 21 rider per country is the most likely scenario I believe On that basis, the following countries applied for places in the qualifiers for the World Under 21 Championship in 2017; 5 Poland; 5 Sweden; 4 Denmark; 4 Czech Republic; 4 Germany; 3 GB; 3 France; 2 Latvia; 2 Russia; 2 Norway; 2 Finland; 2 Australia; 2 Italy; 1 Ukraine; 1 Slovenia; 1 Argentina; 1 Slovakia; 1 New Zealand; 1 USA; 1 Austria. The numbers indicate the number of places respectively allocated to each country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) If you are going to have a compulsory U21 rider,then we are back to square one,as Poland have a bunch and most other countries don't even have one to match........great!!! Edited December 8, 2017 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomin man 76 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 If you are going to have a compulsory U21 rider,then we are back to square one,as Poland have a bunch and most other countries don't even have one to match........great!!! That was pretty much my own thoughts on having a mandatory Under 21 rider. They are hoping to create a system that gives more countries a chance of competing and winning at the highest level in one breadth, yet in another, they are handing Poland a significant advantage over the rest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 WRONG ... how did you come to that conclusion? The FIM demanded a licence fee in addition to that paid by BSI for the SWC commercial rights. So more money into the FIM coffers, not less. Are you talking about the meeting licence fees, because they're different to the commercial rights fees for a competition, and as far as I'm aware are payable on any meeting that's organised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Humphrey I enjoy reading what you have to say on here and even if I dont agree I will appreciate - but if Phil said the sky was blue would u disagree? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Humphrey I enjoy reading what you have to say on here and even if I dont agree I will appreciate - but if Phil said the sky was blue would u disagree? Phillipe is here to put a positive spin on things for BSI with whom he has a commercial relationship. Nothing wrong with that, but he cannot be considered a neutral party and he's either carefully wording his posts thinking we don't know the difference between commercial rights and inscription/permit fees, or he's just repeating BSI verbatim. Throwing in the term 'licence fees' just serves to further that confusion. And if I were the commercial rights holder of the SWC and the FIM made a decision to suspend it and replace with another team-based competition of a very similar ilk, I'd expect that to be included in the rights or be paid some sort of compensation. Of course, if the SWC wasn't sufficient profitable for me and I had a get-out clause on that basis, both parties might wish to negotiate some revised arrangement to reduce costs but ensure that both gain something from it. I think most appreciate Phillipe's participation on here, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not take everything at face value from an official source. Only a few weeks ago he was priming us for a return to a pairs format, yet now the powers-that-be seem to be discussing another format with junior riders and so on. Either someone isn't well informed, or the FIM and BSI are just making things up as they go along. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 We will patiently wait! The Under 21 rule might hike the cost for Team USA if we have to send one from accross the pond! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Phillipe is here to put a positive spin on things for BSI with whom he has a commercial relationship. Nothing wrong with that, but he cannot be considered a neutral party and he's either carefully wording his posts thinking we don't know the difference between commercial rights and inscription/permit fees, or he's just repeating BSI verbatim. Throwing in the term 'licence fees' just serves to further that confusion. And if I were the commercial rights holder of the SWC and the FIM made a decision to suspend it and replace with another team-based competition of a very similar ilk, I'd expect that to be included in the rights or be paid some sort of compensation. Of course, if the SWC wasn't sufficient profitable for me and I had a get-out clause on that basis, both parties might wish to negotiate some revised arrangement to reduce costs but ensure that both gain something from it. I think most appreciate Phillipe's participation on here, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not take everything at face value from an official source. Only a few weeks ago he was priming us for a return to a pairs format, yet now the powers-that-be seem to be discussing another format with junior riders and so on. Either someone isn't well informed, or the FIM and BSI are just making things up as they go along. I AM not and neither have been an official spokesman for BSI. Nor do I contribute here to put a positive spin on anything for them. I can actually think for myself so whatever I write here is a personal opinion, nothing more. Nor do I have a commercial relationship with them. It will be a return to a pairs format but to eradicate the possibility of a rider getting injured during a meeting and that ''pair' becoming a 'single' each country will also include an Under 21 rider in their team. The fact is that the FIM see this as a new competition and demand BSI pay for the commercial (yes, I mistakenly wrote license and I apologise for that)) rights while still retaining and paying for the SWC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 The fact is that the FIM see this as a new competition and demand BSI pay for the commercial (yes, I mistakenly wrote license and I apologise for that)) rights while still retaining and paying for the SWC. So BSI are continuing to pay for the commercial rights for a competition they're unable to run? That wouldn't seem like good business sense, unless of course they asked to stop running the SWC. And didn't we hear that OneSport were prevented from running national teams in the European Pairs competitions because BSI supposedly objected that they were the rights holders to the World Pairs? It will be a return to a pairs format but to eradicate the possibility of a rider getting injured during a meeting and that ''pair' becoming a 'single' each country will also include an Under 21 rider in their team. So the competition is something we've seen before then. It's a best pairs competition with a reserve, which was the WTC format run from 1993 to 1998 except now with an under 21 reserve. Which also begs the question what Armando was rambling on about in the Spar the other week... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 So BSI are continuing to pay for the commercial rights for a competition they're unable to run? That wouldn't seem like good business sense, unless of course they asked to stop running the SWC. And didn't we hear that OneSport were prevented from running national teams in the European Pairs competitions because BSI supposedly objected that they were the rights holders to the World Pairs? So the competition is something we've seen before then. It's a best pairs competition with a reserve, which was the WTC format run from 1993 to 1998 except now with an under 21 reserve. Which also begs the question what Armando was rambling on about in the Spar the other week... WHY not just wait and see? The SWC is not dead which is presumably why BSI retain the rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 It's rumored here in Germany that Abensberg is one of the tracks to host a round of the Speedway of Nations - September 23 is given as the date - which is quite late in the season - not sure if it is going to be a final or a qualifying round? When will the FIM let us know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 It's rumored here in Germany that Abensberg is one of the tracks to host a round of the Speedway of Nations - September 23 is given as the date - which is quite late in the season - not sure if it is going to be a final or a qualifying round? When will the FIM let us know? DOUBT it ... final is in June Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Christ Humph you are so boring. Have you anything positive to say about the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Christ Humph you are so boring. Have you anything positive to say about the sport. Is someone paying you to cheer lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 No but why not try to look for a positive occasionally. There are good things in speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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