Swc 2018

[james1234]

Anyone have any ideas where the Race off and Final will be in 2018

[Col]

Last rumor I heard suggested Manchester.

[PHILIPRISING]

Last rumor I heard suggested Manchester.

THAT probably came from me but the trail went a little cold. Could still happen, along with a different format ... three-man teams, riding as a pair, seven nations, etc. Hope so, otherwise Poland will win the SWC until kingdom come.

[waiheke1]

THAT probably came from me but the trail went a little cold. Could still happen, along with a different format ... three-man teams, riding as a pair, seven nations, etc. Hope so, otherwise Poland will win the SWC until kingdom come.

WOuld be disappointed if that happened. Rather they had both the swc and pairs (with no reserves) or run them on alternate years. Definitely prefer having both each year though. The pairs would simply require one extra Saturday.

[PHILIPRISING]

WOuld be disappointed if that happened. Rather they had both the swc and pairs (with no reserves) or run them on alternate years. Definitely prefer having both each year though. The pairs would simply require one extra Saturday.

WITH so many in juries these days think it is essential even in a 'pairs' there is a third rider.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Could still happen, along with a different format ... three-man teams, riding as a pair, seven nations, etc. Hope so, otherwise Poland will win the SWC until kingdom come.

Whilst I like pairs events, even a 3-rider 'pair' does not really constitute a proper team event. You can't tinker with the format just because one country is dominant at a particular time - Denmark were completely rampant in the 1980s, Britain/England in the 1970s, and to a lesser extent Sweden in the 1960s. What goes around comes around.

 

If you got rid of these privately-promoted mickey mouse 'European' pairs competitions, you could have a World Pairs as well as a World Cup each year.

WITH so many in juries these days think it is essential even in a 'pairs' there is a third rider.

Surely riders can postpone their jury service if they're riding in a meeting?

[Grand Central]

Funny thing about pairs events.
Never been a fan of them at all.
And they do not have a good pedigree at all

They used to be a regular 'filler' meeting at tracks when these were viable; but even then they were rubbish.
Easily missed.

The BL/NL pairs from the seventies to today are always the ''poor relation' of shared events, no matter what the era.
The Somerset staging only benefitting hugely due to Cardiff.
Even then, my personal preference has been a Friday evening out down at the Bay,

The 'one sport circus' was pretty uninspiring even when the teams meant something and has really died on its backside since they changed to the half-baked version of the last two years.

Even the old 'World Best Pairs' only occasional raised more than an eyebrow of interest most years; even with the excellent record England had for years. In fact my memory needs to extend back to Belle a Vue in 1977 - forty years ago - to come up with a treasured memory from the competition. Mauger beating Simmons and Collins was one of the best races I have ever seen.

On the whole the Pairs will be a poor substitute for the SWC.
And that just needs to be streamlined to fewer teams, have just a race off and final.
AND GET RID OF THE BLOODY JOKER.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Grand Central

[RPNY]

Will be a tremendous shame if the SWC was axed for a Pairs competition. It always throws up incredible racing and I would agree pairs competitions are rarely that well supported. It is indeed apoor relation to team events. And cant justify 2 riders as a 'team' really
IF it was in Manchester this year the Brits with 2 home track riders and Woffy would be very strong. Poland winning 2 years on the spin would be a sad reason to stop the competition. Just stop staging it in Poland...

Edited October 30, 2017 by RPNYC

[PHILIPRISING]

Whilst I like pairs events, even a 3-rider 'pair' does not really constitute a proper team event. You can't tinker with the format just because one country is dominant at a particular time - Denmark were completely rampant in the 1980s, Britain/England in the 1970s, and to a lesser extent Sweden in the 1960s. What goes around comes around.

 

If you got rid of these privately-promoted mickey mouse 'European' pairs competitions, you could have a World Pairs as well as a World Cup each year.

 

Surely riders can postpone their jury service if they're riding in a meeting?

THE FIM scrapped the old WTC when Denmark were dominant and went to a three-man Pairs. Under the current format riders race in each heat as an individual. In a pairs they race together as a team. Personally prefer that.

Will be a tremendous shame if the SWC was axed for a Pairs competition. It always throws up incredible racing and I would agree pairs competitions are rarely that well supported. It is indeed apoor relation to team events. And cant justify 2 riders as a 'team' really

IF it was in Manchester this year the Brits with 2 home track riders and Woffy would be very strong. Poland winning 2 years on the spin would be a sad reason to stop the competition. Just stop staging it in Poland...

NOT sure where it is staged makes any difference. I think a final that possibly includes Australia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Great Britain, Poland, Russia and Sweden, all of whom would be competitive, could offer great entertainment.

[Humphrey Appleby]

THE FIM scrapped the old WTC when Denmark were dominant and went to a three-man Pairs. Under the current format riders race in each heat as an individual. In a pairs they race together as a team. Personally prefer that.

 

The old WTC format wasnt scrapped because Denmark were dominant - indeed they only won it once in the 5 years before it became a glorified pairs competition. It was done ostensibly to free up dates for the SGP, but probably in reality to save money - undoubtedly like now.

 

If you want riders to ride in pairs, theres a perfectly serviceable 4TT format to do precisely that. And I suspect if one were to dig out some old Speedway Stars from circa 2001, wed find an editorial praising the return to a proper team competition and vision of the new SWC promoters.

 

Best pairs is not a proper team competition.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[Grand Central]

THE FIM scrapped the old WTC when Denmark were dominant and went to a three-man Pairs.

 

No they didn't.

 

The World Pairs was merged with the WTC using the pairs format just for the years 1994 to 1998.

The not-s0 dominat Denmark's last two wins were back in 1988 and 1991.

 

The truth is that the Pairs had died on it's backside in the nineties, never recovering from the bonkers 6-man races of the late eighties.

Yet another humdinger out of Geneva.

 

By 1999 we were back to a four team WTC with the daft 'three-man-pair' version dropped.

But this time they adopted the formula allowing two men per team per race.

 

When BSI took over in 2001 it reverted to the one-man per team per race.

For some reason

Edited October 30, 2017 by Grand Central

[Humphrey Appleby]

When BSI took over in 2001 it reverted, for some reason, to the one-man per team per race.

For some reason

Don’t forget the bonkers 5TT, five-riders-per-race format used by them for a while.

[RPNY]

THE FIM scrapped the old WTC when Denmark were dominant and went to a three-man Pairs. Under the current format riders race in each heat as an individual. In a pairs they race together as a team. Personally prefer that.

NOT sure where it is staged makes any difference. I think a final that possibly includes Australia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Great Britain, Poland, Russia and Sweden, all of whom would be competitive, could offer great entertainment.

Yes I make you right,. but Id like to see that at the very least alternate every other year with the Traditional SWC rather than just become the norm.

[PHILIPRISING]

THE FIM changed the format because several countries were unable to field four or five competitive riders, especially in the qualifying rounds when it was also tough to find countries willing to stage them. That remains true today.

 

If anyone on here prefers the current format, fine. That's their view. Mine is that a team competition that can actually encourage team riding is preferable.

 

Doesn't make me right or wrong.

[Grand Central]

THE FIM changed the format because several countries were unable to field four or five competitive riders, especially in the qualifying rounds when it was also tough to find countries willing to stage them. That remains true today.

 

True.

Not because of Denmark's dominance.

 

 

If anyone on here prefers the current format, fine. That's their view. Mine is that a team competition that can actually encourage team riding is preferable.

 

I agree.

Which was provided in the format last used in 2000.

For the years 2001-2017 this has never been re-introduced.

It may have been better.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

True.

Not because of Denmark's dominance.

 

 

 

AS someone who regularly attended (and frequently fell asleep during) FIM Congresses, the old World Team Cup came under the microscope on several occasions including when Denmark appeared to have total domination. But nothing was done, not least because Denmark had a very strong voice at the FIM.

WHEN John Postlethwaite took the reins at BSI and became the organisers of both the SGP and SWC he had an idea for the team competition which in its concept was brilliant but, sadly, totally unpractical for speedway.

 

John envisaged a week long competition, all the various rounds and final would be in the same country, and all the participating riders would spend the whole seven days on site as it were promoting the event. It was tried, first in Poland and Denmark, but failed. Attendances at the events not including the host country were poor and the costs of accommodating so many riders for a week proved prohibitive.

 

JP saw it as a mini-soccer or cricket World Cup and hoped it would gather fans from across the speedway spectrum for the whole period of the tournament. It didn't. But it was worth a try.

[Grand Central]

All of which I do appreciate.

We have all lived through these times together.

 

My concern is about the choices now being made for the future.

 

I can see, yet again, the argument for pairs so that more countries can put together competitive 'teams'.

And that the resulting meeting you envisage looks good.

Equally I hear the reasons why reserves may be necessary to make the pairs viable at all.

 

My problem remains that pairs events have never been that successful, really.

They have not captured the imagination of speedway folk before, much.

And specifically the three-man-pair version seems to have failed in the nineties when tried.

And these last few years that One Sport have comeback with it seem to have been largely ignored by the fans.

 

So, is it really worth another try, now?

Edited October 30, 2017 by Grand Central

[PHILIPRISING]

All of which I do appreciate.

We have all lived through these times together.

 

My concern is about the choices now being made for the future.

 

I can see, yet again, the argument for pairs so that more countries can put together competitive 'teams'.

And that the resulting meeting you envisage looks good.

Equally I hear the reasons why reserves may be necessary to make the pairs viable at all.

 

My problem remains that pairs events have never been that successful, really.

They have not captured the imagination of speedway folk before, much.

And specifically the three-man-pair version seems to have failed in the nineties when tried.

And these last few years that One Sport have comeback with it seem to have been largely ignored by the fans.

 

So, is it really worth another try, now?

WITH respect, the One Sport version is for corporate teams not national ones. Stick a Danish, Polish, Swedish and hopefully British race-jacket on the riders and the outcome could be very different.

[Humphrey Appleby]

THE FIM changed the format because several countries were unable to field four or five competitive riders, especially in the qualifying rounds when it was also tough to find countries willing to stage them.

I'd say have less teams then, and make the Pairs some sort of second division.

 

There's only 9 countries strong enough to field teams in test cricket (even if there's 12 in theory), but that's the way it goes.

 

As I said, the suggestion to revert to a pairs format is far more likely to be down to a cost-cutting exercise.

WHEN John Postlethwaite took the reins at BSI and became the organisers of both the SGP and SWC he had an idea for the team competition which in its concept was brilliant but, sadly, totally unpractical for speedway.

I actually agree it was worth a try, but 12 teams was never going to be practical or competitive. If they'd just started with 8 there would have been better chances of success.

 

And that's not saying with hindsight - said it at the time.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[Grand Central]

WITH respect, the One Sport version is for corporate teams not national ones. Stick a Danish, Polish, Swedish and hopefully British race-jacket on the riders and the outcome could be very different.

 

Agree that it is in that state now.

 

But when they started and for a couple of years they used national teams just as you suggest doing now.

Still a damp squib for most folk.