Daytripper Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, KevH said: It would be very interesting to hear Jon Cook's side of this story, as I'm convinced Stuart Douglas would unaware of any such goings on at his club!! I think we should not jump,to conclusions . It seems serious at face value but there are a number of things that do not add or are not known to those of us on the outside. One of the things that the team captain has to sign off for the referee at the start of each meeting is that all monies owed to the riders have been paid. I have known, for example a Team GB captain note that team GB members were not paid, I have known a Wolves captain note that one of his junior riders were not paid and I was once standing next to Hans Andersen in the pits when he refused to sign unless the Swindon TM phoned the bank and arraged an immediate bank transfer of outstanding wages before the meeting started. So these forms to the ref do carry a bit of weight. At the time Kim refers to Andreas Jonssonwas Lakeside captain, and I find it difficult to believe that AJ would sign the refs form if his friend, fellow country man and travelling companion was owed a lot of money . AJ is nobody’s lackey. Secondly it seems odd that Kim would not be paid if AJ and the rest of the team were, and apart from the fact that AJ would be the first to say something , nearly all Lakeside 2018 have ridden for the club before so why would they come back if they weren’t paid. It’s not as if none of them were wanted elsewhere. I am not saying Kim is making this up, far from it. I think he is a top bloke and one of the best in speedway but just that there are facts that maybe we are not aware of and shouldn’t jump to conclusions just yet. Maybe more will emerge with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, liam said: Just been reading this on Twitter. £26k he is owed. Disgraceful. Iam shocked why he continued to ride. The total owed is £26,500.Some is from Swedish club(s).He doesn’t say how much if any is from Lakeside and could include guest bookings. Not good that any rider should be owed money from anyone though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 Absolute farce that riders get banned for refusing to ride if their not being paid. I would never ever stand for it, recently left my job and got a new one due to none of the lads on site being paid. Should be paid every week without fail and if its a week late, employer should add a percentage on as compensation for your late wage. Something that needs a huge look at 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 I think Kim, having now put the issue in the open, needs to expand upon just who owes him money, how much and what for? The whole thing does not sound 'very Lakeside' to me and, perhaps, their promotion should issue a statement to address the concerns expressed. Five of this year's seven riders have ridden for the club before, surely if there were payment issues they would not have re-signed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) I think it is obvious who he is getting at particularly as he has named those clubs who do not owe him. I very much doubt he would have omitted naming Lakeside when he has named Leicester. What we don't know is the reasons why he wasn't paid and the sums involved from each club. Sometimes clubs can have cash flow problems for example, if they have not had a home meeting for some weeks but that can't explain what appear to be old debts. I don't think that riders returning to a club necessarily means anything. This has happened at other clubs who have allegedly owed money and could be because those clubs offer explanations and assurances about the future. Edited March 10, 2018 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenspoon Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 Owing riders money is nothing new in Speedway, it has often been the way of getting riders to sign up for you for the following season, with the premise that the promoter will pay your owed wages, or part of it, if you sign again on the dotted line. Promoters only get money coming into the club with home meetings, so if you are unfortunate to only have one home meeting to say two or three away meetings, you obviously have a cash problem. I believe that at one time the home promoter also paid the basic start & points money of the away riders, whether this is still the case I am not sure. As for the Captains signing to say all monies have been paid before the meeting that is a complete joke. The BSPA should bring it a rule that applies to all, if clubs owe any money at the end of the season they cannot operate in the next, until they have cleared them. (The only club they did this to were Belle Vue, though I think there were some things going on that we do not know). You have to blame the riders to some extent, as without them as body standing up to the promoters this problem will just go on & on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 It does seem strange as Kim has always said how much he enjoyed riding for Lakeside. Can’t say I would enjoy working anywhere if I was owed a load of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 If every rider that was owed money by their club refused to ride there would be a lot of cancelled fixtures.Its not right though,it's ironic that most of clubs reputed to be regular payers are the ones who don't pay over the odds,and make promises they can't keep.I do think cash flow can be a major problem at most clubs due to the nature of the fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, liam said: It does seem strange as Kim has always said how much he enjoyed riding for Lakeside. Can’t say I would enjoy working anywhere if I was owed a load of money. It seems very odd to me as well. On a more general note, there is a thread regarding this subject on the 'Speedway News and Discussions' section. Further comments should go there as they are not relevant to the Lakeside 2018 thread. ' Edited March 10, 2018 by tocha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Aces51 said: I think it is obvious who he is getting at particularly as he has named those clubs who do not owe him. I very much doubt he would have omitted naming Lakeside when he has named Leicester. What we don't know is the reasons why he wasn't paid and the sums involved from each club. Sometimes clubs can have cash flow problems for example, if they have not had a home meeting for some weeks but that can't explain what appear to be old debts. I don't think that riders returning to a club necessarily means anything. This has happened at other clubs who have allegedly owed money and could be because those clubs offer explanations and assurances about the future. Yes, there are many circumstances of Riders being owed money and these matters get resolved. As has been said you only need to have a run of rain offs and you can be in trouble . One year we had no meetings at home in a June, which meant no income, but we came to an agreement with the captain and the team, that the 4 away meetings would be paid progressively through the following months. It was all a matter of trust that worked for us. One year a rider was paid all his wages, but his crippling flights that year that we were responsible for, but the rider did not actually pay(already back in his country). It was agreed to pay him his flights at the end of the year and they were paid. He returned the next year as well. One other situation is when a sponsor undertakes to make payments, in addition to his clubs wages, and the sponsor doesn't pay up. It is a club debt but not really the responsibility of the actual club. When clubs that owe money go bust, the riders owed money are paid out of the bond held by the BSPA, but at a standard rate which is a lot less that their contract rate. Edited March 10, 2018 by Tsunami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, Tsunami said: Yes, there are many circumstances of Riders being owed money and these matters get resolved. As has been said you only need to have a run of rain offs and you can be in trouble . One year we had no meetings at home in a June, which meant no income, but we came to an agreement with the captain and the team, that the 4 away meetings would be paid progressively threw the following months. It was all a matter of trust that worked for us. One year a rider was paid all his wages, but his crippling flights that year that we were responsible for, but the rider did not actually pay(already back on his country). It was agreed to pay him his flights at the end of the year and they were paid. He returned the next year as well. One other situation is when a sponsor undertakes to make payments, in addition to his clubs wages, and the sponsor doesn't pay up. It is a club debt but not really the responsibility of the actual club. When clubs that owe money go bust, the riders owed money are paid out of the bond held by the BSPA, but at a standard rate which is a lot less that their contract rate. Think if ALL clubs payed the Standard rate there would be a lot less problems in the sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 On 3/10/2018 at 1:07 PM, Fromafar said: Think if ALL clubs payed the Standard rate there would be a lot less problems in the sport. And FAR less riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 52 minutes ago, KevH said: And FAR less riders You reckon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 It’s a shame the modern trend of having only 12 rider individuals is continuing in this meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 09/03/2018 at 6:36 PM, KevH said: It would be very interesting to hear Jon Cook's side of this story, as I'm convinced Stuart Douglas would unaware of any such goings on at his club!! I should think Douglas would be fully aware of such going ons as you put it bearing in mind it’s his club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: I should think Douglas would be fully aware of such going ons as you put it bearing in mind it’s his club. All the more reason for an official response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 6 hours ago, marko said: It’s a shame the modern trend of having only 12 rider individuals is continuing in this meeting. 12 rider individuals suck. I'm working in London and was going to go to the meeting, specially as its in memory of a rider I was a fan of. Then I saw it was the crap 12 rider format. I'll go and find a bar and have a few drinks instead! Is it really that difficult to find 4 more riders early in the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 More difficult? No. More expensive? Yes. It's just another example of how tin pot the sport has become compared to times gone by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 54 minutes ago, SCB said: 12 rider individuals suck. I'm working in London and was going to go to the meeting, specially as its in memory of a rider I was a fan of. Then I saw it was the crap 12 rider format. I'll go and find a bar and have a few drinks instead! Is it really that difficult to find 4 more riders early in the season? Actually I make it 13 riders so whether there will be more to come I know not. TBF Individuals generally do not get a lot of support from the public these days especially if their are no big names, and the bottom line is that the 20 heat formula is not usually viable. The object of the exercise, as in the last few years seems to be to give all the home team some track time and sort out set ups before the season starts in earnest and to give the fans a whiff of methanol after a long winter. You could have a few drinks in the Jon Cook Executive Lounge and enjoy the racing from there of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 The object of the exercise is one of the problems,fans paying full whack to watch practice .! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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