KevtheRev Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 Careful what you say about Vatcher - you'll get the website shutdown !!!! As for the comments abut Rye fans bleating on about things - once again it you Lakeside fans that keep making confrontational comments. Will I be returning - Not a chance in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 We never travel that well away anyway, I still think it’s a reasonable side, maybe not a stand out unless the likes of Zach hit the ground running, look at Swindon last season, no one fancied them. Anyway what’s done is done, there is no point debating this any longer, a decision had been made and we will have to take it on the chin and battle on as we always do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 hours ago, mac101 said: Everybody and there granny mentioned it on here that the teams ave was over the limit why has it taken this long to sort it out the riders averages are there on the final greensheet it’s not rocket science hope max gets sorted out The fact remains that the BSPA confirmed in writing the averages the riders could be signed on, and Lakeside were entitled to rely on that letter. Then along comes the SCB and says the BSPA letter is not worth the paper it's printed on. Not difficult to work out why the sport is in a mess is it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 19 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Yeah J - youd be the saviour of the sport well you never know you might not be too far from the truth there jenga once over played a big part in saving speedway in a certain area 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, marko said: We never travel that well away anyway, I still think it’s a reasonable side, maybe not a stand out unless the likes of Zach hit the ground running, look at Swindon last season, no one fancied them. Anyway what’s done is done, there is no point debating this any longer, a decision had been made and we will have to take it on the chin and battle on as we always do. I agree with you Marko it’s going to need Zach to really push on, he was top class last season so fingers crossed he can push on again this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 So how come the bspa couldn't see the team didn't fit? Does Cook have mates on the bspa? Well done to the SCB for keeping their eye on the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 IMO its either the Lakeside calculator needs batteries, or the BSPA don't know their own rules regarding averages, either way its a mess that makes the sport of speedway look very amateurish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, screm said: IMO its either the Lakeside calculator needs batteries, or the BSPA don't know their own rules regarding averages, either way its a mess that makes the sport of speedway look very amateurish. Amateurish to who? No one out side of the ever decreasing speedway family probably gives it a second thought. But yes it's very amateurish...a word that's used alot when talking speedway..along with embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 Honestly, speedway fans amaze me. One of the biggest complaints from speedway fans is the rules are too confusing, the rule book needs cutting down. So the SCB cut out a few rules and now suddenly speedway fans are in uproar. FFS. What has happened here is the BSPA have give their interpretation of the rules to a promotion, they are wrong. The SCB have subsequently come along as said so. Its the SCB who write the rule book and are judge, jury and executioner, the BSPA are just a rtade body who advise. Many of us "thick or biased" or biased fans (remember that quote Jon Cook? You silly twit, coming back to haunt you now eh?) pointed out months back that Lakeside were wrong. Maybe the issue here is that Jon Cook was "thick or biased"? Maybe if he was intelligent and unbiased (like, say, the fans or the Workington promotion) then he'd have know the rule was was removed. The issue here is for years the BSPA have been allowed to do what the hell they like and the sport has been shooting itself in the foot. So the SCB (about as independent as we're likely to get) has decided to start taking action, they gave Peterborough (quite rightly) a kicking last year, despite what the toothless, useless, "thick or biased" BSPA told them. Gone are the days of the BSPA being allowed to make things up as they go along, the SCB are actually making sure the actual rules are stuck too. In short Jon Cook was wrong, the BSPA were wrong but the SCB ARE right the the SCB are all that matters. What Cook, the BSPA, Baldyman, jenga, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv, all the Lakeside fans and I think is right/wrong is irrelevant, the SCB are the "law" when it comes to speedway, they write the rule and they control them, they say that Lakeside and Cook are wrong (rightly IMO). It's about time that someone (the SCB as it happens) started making sure that the rules we have are being stuck to. Good for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 12/12/2017 at 1:15 PM, HAMMER180 said: they are only bored because their teams are not complete yet liam soon as they are they will go to their threads for a moan Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, SCB said: Honestly, speedway fans amaze me. One of the biggest complaints from speedway fans is the rules are too confusing, the rule book needs cutting down. So the SCB cut out a few rules and now suddenly speedway fans are in uproar. FFS. What has happened here is the BSPA have give their interpretation of the rules to a promotion, they are wrong. The SCB have subsequently come along as said so. Its the SCB who write the rule book and are judge, jury and executioner, the BSPA are just a rtade body who advise. Many of us "thick or biased" or biased fans (remember that quote Jon Cook? You silly twit, coming back to haunt you now eh?) pointed out months back that Lakeside were wrong. Maybe the issue here is that Jon Cook was "thick or biased"? Maybe if he was intelligent and unbiased (like, say, the fans or the Workington promotion) then he'd have know the rule was was removed. The issue here is for years the BSPA have been allowed to do what the hell they like and the sport has been shooting itself in the foot. So the SCB (about as independent as we're likely to get) has decided to start taking action, they gave Peterborough (quite rightly) a kicking last year, despite what the toothless, useless, "thick or biased" BSPA told them. Gone are the days of the BSPA being allowed to make things up as they go along, the SCB are actually making sure the actual rules are stuck too. In short Jon Cook was wrong, the BSPA were wrong but the SCB ARE right the the SCB are all that matters. What Cook, the BSPA, Baldyman, jenga, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv, all the Lakeside fans and I think is right/wrong is irrelevant, the SCB are the "law" when it comes to speedway, they write the rule and they control them, they say that Lakeside and Cook are wrong (rightly IMO). It's about time that someone (the SCB as it happens) started making sure that the rules we have are being stuck to. Good for them! 1. Just to point out and separate fact from fantasy for the umpteenth time that Cooks infamous "thick or biased" comment was not aimed at fans but at certain promoters who sat through an AGM where a "one 8 point rider" rule was discussed, voted in favour of it then said they didn't understand it when they fell foul of it. 2. No dispute about the fact that the SCB have authority over the rule book and can add or delete a rule, but that's not the point. The issue is that the AGM was in November 2017 and it has taken them until the end of January 2018 to start juggling around with it. Team building starts right after the AGM. The SCB are aware of that. How difficult can it be to go through the rule book the day after the AGM and say yes we agree or no we don't. It's entirely due to the dithering of the SCB that a team is not built as strong as it might and a young rider is out of a job. Lakeside didn't announce their team until towards the end of last year and none of this would have happened if Vatcher and Co were quicker off the blocks in rescinding the rule if that was their intention. No reason why they couldn't have sorted this within days of the AGM. Speaking of which, does anybody know if the 2018 rule book is published yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Fan Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 What I do not understand about this ridiculous situation is this...there has been a rule in the rule book about how to calculate a riders average when putting a team together for a long time. So far as I know, it has not change. So I would like to hear Jon Cook's explanation of how he got it wrong ? As a promoter and organiser, I admire Jon Cook. He has been in the game a long time and often talks sound common sense...so that is why I am curious about this silly mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 9 hours ago, East End Fan said: What I do not understand about this ridiculous situation is this...there has been a rule in the rule book about how to calculate a riders average when putting a team together for a long time. So far as I know, it has not change. So I would like to hear Jon Cook's explanation of how he got it wrong ? As a promoter and organiser, I admire Jon Cook. He has been in the game a long time and often talks sound common sense...so that is why I am curious about this silly mistake. All riders started 2017 with a Championship average - converted for those with only a Premiership figure (meaning a few were actually over 12) The limits for both Premiership and Championship were recalibrated to accommodate revised league strengths Any fixtures from 2016 then became redundant with rolling averages being dropped. ALL riders were then awarded brand new averages upon completion of 4 home 4 away meetings A new conversion ratio of 1.2 was introduced for switches between the leagues during the season. At the AGM it was decided this was inaccurate and amended to 1.3 2016 averages (for those riding in Britain in 2017) were consigned to the dustbin when those decisions were made along with any rule relating to previous years team building arrangements I dont think Cook is to blame (was he even involved in the discussions at either conference?) Looks like he has been given misguided assurances based on an out dated scenario 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 As all riders were given CL aves maybe those who are returning should also be reassessed accordingly e.g. Woryna Sundstrom Sczhzpaniak ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 9 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: All riders started 2017 with a Championship average - converted for those with only a Premiership figure (meaning a few were actually over 12) The limits for both Premiership and Championship were recalibrated to accommodate revised league strengths Any fixtures from 2016 then became redundant with rolling averages being dropped. ALL riders were then awarded brand new averages upon completion of 4 home 4 away meetings A new conversion ratio of 1.2 was introduced for switches between the leagues during the season. At the AGM it was decided this was inaccurate and amended to 1.3 2016 averages (for those riding in Britain in 2017) were consigned to the dustbin when those decisions were made along with any rule relating to previous years team building arrangements I dont think Cook is to blame (was he even involved in the discussions at either conference?) Looks like he has been given misguided assurances based on an out dated scenario YES! Someone has posted about what I have been saying for this last5 or 6 weeks in that once you have achieved an average in 2017, everything else is irrelevant(racing in different leagues. I also pointed out that riders with older than a 2016 average ie Musielak should have NEVER used an old average but assessed on current form. I also agree with 2nd bendbeerhut in that those riders should have reassessed averages. There have been a few issues which were not thought out thoroughly at the AGM, but Rome was not built in a day, so we now have to go with what we have got & hope that Supplementary Rules, made by the SCB, that will come along in 2018, are for the benefit of British Speedway & not individual clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliv Clav Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 27 January 2018 at 6:53 PM, Baldyman said: Well done to the SCB for keeping their eye on the ball. Yes, almost 3 months after the BSPA release averages to start building teams with, the SCB have spotted 2 mistakes! On the ball that lot(!) Surely these organisations agree on the averages before team building takes place?! Are the SCB only now checking the averages that teams are using for riders? If so, why so late?!! Isn't their job to govern the BSPA and insure things are done correctly? Not briefly check what is going on every few months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 As the saying goes.... Better late than never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 When I was involved, you submitted your team when it was complete and waited till the BSPA looked at them near the start of the season when anomolies were raised for solution. I don't think the SCB looked at them, but the BSPA Office manager gave the nod it was accepted. Sounds like the SCB are now acting in the vacuum of not having an independant adjudicator which the sport can't really afford, especially with all the extra clerical work and other overheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 As long as the cheats get caught or mistakes are corrected..then anytime is a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Did Chris Louis get caught ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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