Peter Collins Article

[Halifaxtiger]

That is NOT the information provided on the WSRA's own website.

 

A Former rider pass costs £30 plus a fee of £5 and the information given is that free admission is only available when accompanied by a full-paying adult.

 

It is disingenuous to call that person a 'guest'.

They are a pre-requisite of the discount 'offer' more akin to a voucher code or 'money off coupon' in human form.

 

Frankly I would not be 'President' of any club that treats it's members in such a fashion when negotiating with other parties.

It's degrading.

 

That's a little harsh, although your description - 'discount offer'- is bang on.

 

There is a fine line here between who gets free entry and who doesn't and it seems to me that the WSRA are trying to come to some sort of compromise that satisfies all parties.

 

After all, with some exceptions - Peter Collins definitely being one - you can't let every ex rider in for nothing.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

I think it is bizarre, insulting and ridiculous that a rider of Peter Collins stature at Belle Vue (there is only Chris Morton that would match his record) is required to bring a paying adult with him to get in for nothing.

 

On the other hand, he has no right whatsoever to dictate to a club that a condition of him being there is that a huge number of others also get in free.

 

It is for each individual club to decide who receives free entry and who does not.

PC doesn't need a paying adult with him to get into BV.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

That's a little harsh, although your description - 'discount offer'- is bang on.

 

There is a fine line here between who gets free entry and who doesn't and it seems to me that the WSRA are trying to come to some sort of compromise that satisfies all parties.

 

After all, with some exceptions - Peter Collins definitely being one - you can't let every ex rider in for nothing.

WOULD Man U let ever ex-player in for nothing? And it wasn't only ex-riders that PC had on the list he submitted to BV for free admission.

[moxey63]

WOULD Man U let ever ex-player in for nothing? And it wasn't only ex-riders that PC had on the list he submitted to BV for free admission.

 

Man U don't need to invite ex-players in for nothing. I bet Bobby Charlton won't have to pay I bet... even Dennis Law. Even in my advancing years, it was always nice as a fan to see an ex-rider in the stadium. Would feel a bit embarrassed if one was standing with me in the queue paying admission.

Edited October 26, 2017 by moxey63

[Halifaxtiger]

PC doesn't need a paying adult with him to get into BV.

 

Thanks Phil - as I said, I haven't read the article but it was implied in comments that that was the case.

 

 

WOULD Man U let ever ex-player in for nothing? And it wasn't only ex-riders that PC had on the list he submitted to BV for free admission.

 

I suspect they'd let Bobby Charlton in for nothing, yes.

 

We aren't just talking ex riders in Collins' case. We are talking about a rider that rode his entire career for one team and became World Champion whilst there,

 

I don't know a single person that objects to the fact that Dougie Wyer gets in free at Sheffield, almost certainly because of the number of years that he rode there and his star status.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[Grand Central]

The WRSA deal is not totally free. They pay £35.

 

Making it Free for everyone would not cost as much as many suspect.

The vast majority of ex riders are not attending anyway.

So no money would be lost to the sport by more coming free.

 

The real issue I have is the ridiculous deal that ties these men to bringing their carer to gain free entry.

That is just wrong.

It is the wrong type of deal to do when trying to respect them as people let alone when claiming to value them for their contribution to the sport

 

It is not beyond the wit of man to come up with terms that deal with who should qualify for a pass, what discount they get and how many and/or what type of meeting it could be used for.

 

But this particular bring your parole officer/vicar/nurse to get in for free.

That just stinks.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Grand Central

[customhouseregular]

Just a thought and shoot me down if you wish, but if you had a 6,000 capacity stadium and 1,000 paying people attended a meeting, would you not prefer 100 people with free passes buying programmes, drinks, food etc. and swelling the crowd by 10%, particularly if being televised to 100 people staying away and therefore spending nothing?.

 

They may recommend friends or help publicise which may pay dividends in the long term.

[The White Knight]

Just a thought and shoot me down if you wish, but if you had a 6,000 capacity stadium and 1,000 paying people attended a meeting, would you not prefer 100 people with free passes buying programmes, drinks, food etc. and swelling the crowd by 10%, particularly if being televised to 100 people staying away and therefore spending nothing?.

 

They may recommend friends or help publicise which may pay dividends in the long term.

That is a very decent point to make. No gunfire from me chr.

[Sidney the robin]

Peter Collins was a real credit to the sport he brought a great image to and firstly was a great rider who put bums on seats.I think PC is like most of us really frustrated with the sport and he knows the sport should be in better shape.

[Tsunami]

 

Thanks Phil - as I said, I haven't read the article but it was implied in comments that that was the case.

 

 

 

I suspect they'd let Bobby Charlton in for nothing, yes.

 

We aren't just talking ex riders in Collins' case. We are talking about a rider that rode his entire career for one team and became World Champion whilst there,

 

I don't know a single person that objects to the fact that Dougie Wyer gets in free at Sheffield, almost certainly because of the number of years that he rode there and his star status.

I understood he was a board member at ManU.

[The White Knight]

I understood he was a board member at ManU.

You are right Tsunami - Bobby is a Member of the Board.

[Halifaxtiger]

The WRSA deal is not totally free. They pay £35.

 

Making it Free for everyone would not cost as much as many suspect.

The vast majority of ex riders are not attending anyway.

So no money would be lost to the sport by more coming free.

 

The real issue I have is the ridiculous deal that ties these men to bringing their carer to gain free entry.

That is just wrong.

It is the wrong type of deal to do when trying to respect them as people let alone when claiming to value them for their contribution to the sport

 

It is not beyond the wit of man to come up with terms that deal with who should qualify for a pass, what discount they get and how many and/or what type of meeting it could be used for.

 

But this particular bring your parole officer/vicar/nurse to get in for free.

That just stinks.

 

Apparently Peter Collins wants 100 people to get in for free. That is at least a potential loss to Belle Vue of £1,700 per meeting or as much as £35,000 season. And that's just one track !!

 

You are right that letting someone who doesn't go in for nothing won't cost a club a penny and I very much approve of such a policy as a means of attracting new fans (quite simply, in my experience it works to the degree needed). But you simply can't do that indefinitely for the same person - be that to fans or most ex riders - because you are giving your product away for nothing and gaining nothing from it.

 

Letting Peter Collins or Chris Morton in free is one thing and I doubt if anyone would object in the slightest. Letting someone who rode 6 meetings for the Aces in is very much another, and in today's climate could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for that most priceless of commodities : a paying fan.

 

I do believe that it is for individual clubs to determine their own entry policy, be that free or paying.

I understood he was a board member at ManU.

 

Wrong example, maybe, but merely making the point that a club legend would almost certainly get in without paying.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[PHILIPRISING]

CAN we just make one thing clear ... Peter Collins has never been asked to pay to get into Belle Vue speedway.

[The White Knight]

CAN we just make one thing clear ... Peter Collins has never been asked to pay to get into Belle Vue speedway.

Fair enough. Nor should he be.

 

I would like to hear the Club's official side of the argument.

[orion]

Just a thought and shoot me down if you wish, but if you had a 6,000 capacity stadium and 1,000 paying people attended a meeting, would you not prefer 100 people with free passes buying programmes, drinks, food etc. and swelling the crowd by 10%, particularly if being televised to 100 people staying away and therefore spending nothing?.

 

They may recommend friends or help publicise which may pay dividends in the long term.

Why not let 300 others in for free and see if they do the same ? then your swell the crowd by 30 %. As for Peter Collins thou no doubt a great rider he has now become quite bitter and started acting like an idiot . .

 

One of speedway biggest problems is hangers on and freeloaders and Collins want over a 100 of these per meeting .

[Tsunami]

Fair enough. Nor should he be.

 

I would like to hear the Club's official side of the argument.

I would suspect that the new promotion would not want to enlarge on the situation. They haven't anything really to gain, and it would seem that most BV fans are probably aware of the 100+ frees already. No need to wash their dirty washing on a public forum or magazine.

[The White Knight]

Why not let 300 others in for free and see if they do the same ? then your swell the crowd by 30 %. As for Peter Collins thou no doubt a great rider he has now become quite bitter and started acting like an idiot . .

 

One of speedway biggest problems is hangers on and freeloaders and Collins want over a 100 of these per meeting .

I totally agree with that Statement. It has been one of my biggest gripes for years. In fact the number of Freeloaders who got in to Sunderland in the '70's, were very probably one of the main reasons we closed.

 

These Freeloaders ruin the Sport for the genuine Supporters.

 

I would suspect that the new promotion would not want to enlarge on the situation. They haven't anything really to gain, and it would seem that most BV fans are probably aware of the 100+ frees already. No need to wash their dirty washing on a public forum or magazine.

Fair comment Tsunami - you are right.

[Grand Central]

I am not advocating letting in hangers on.

I hold no brief for this 'PC list'.

 

My only concern is having a fair system for the old boys.

And especially the lesser men. Not the stars at all.

 

It just makes no sense to calculate 'money lost' n the way folk are doing.

When, on the whole, the money is not coming from these people in the first place, so cannot be 'lost'.

 

It would seem that I find myself in agreement with PC on the issue off the WRSA.

And his stand against using his VIP status and using his own pass at BV when others are wrongly treated seems prlncipled.

As does his wish not to align himself with the WRSA when he disagrees with the type of deal they struck with the BSPA.

[PHILIPRISING]

Fair enough. Nor should he be.

 

I would like to hear the Club's official side of the argument.

WORKING on it but not sure it is a discussion they want to get into if it requires publicly criticising PC in any way.

[The White Knight]

WORKING on it but not sure it is a discussion they want to get into if it requires publicly criticising PC in any way.

Thank you Phil.

 

As I said in my Reply to Tsunami - that is probably as it should be.