Peter Collins Article

[Fundin5]

Grand Central, on 02 Nov 2017 - 4:22 PM, said:

Great to read the PR opinion piece in this week's Star.

An object lesson in how to write an article that at first glance looks to be sat strictly on the fence.

But is in fact always firmly on one side of the debate.

Very nicely done.

 

It also neatly spares Mr Burford's puse-cheeked blushes by making no reference whatsoever to his hamfisted handling of the original article.

 

I am pleased that no one, from the new or old promotion, wants to 'wash their dirty linen in public' as that would not be their style.

 

The teaser at the end of the article though is quite mouth watering.

It seems that Mr Gordon is off down to the The Star Public Laundry next week with as much 2016 dirty washing as he can find.

 

Really quite stylish.

I can't wait.

 

Should be quite an interesting article to read. I'll be reading it at 40,000 feet on my way to Australia, no doubt reliving everything that went on in 2016. Although I am always eager to hear someone's opinion, it will be, I assume, only Gordon's side of the story again. What we really need for a balanced argument is to hear the Manchester Council's stance and somehow, I don't think that will happen. Well, for the time being at least.

 

What we are not privy to is anything that is ongoing (between the parties concerned) in relation to the happenings at The NSS in 2016. Perhaps in time we will learn what really happened. However, I fear we may never get the full story.

 

Still something to look forward to and I don't think it will be the last time it raises its head again.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

What I can't get, is that PC has never been outspoken. He could have sold a book, had he written one, of his past exploits. I'd have opened my purse for that. He could have told of his running with Carter, which I don't think he's ever aired. He was never outspoken on SKY, even when the likes of Tony Millard put questions his way during commentary.

 

So why now, when he has something to say, do some fans feel he's having a go at speedway and Belle Vue? I mean, Philip Rising's excellent piece portrays PC as someone who didn't like revealing too much. But when he does, like the ticket story, some on here a rapid with their keyboard to criticise the great man.

 

I have had experience myself. You criticise the sport, and some on here feel as though you are having a go at their missus or other close family members.

 

PC always wanted to be under the radar, just ride, entertain us, and not cause controversy. So why would he speak out now.. when he has no need to? I feel he's just frustrated... mainly at the way his beloved sport has gone. You either put up with it, keep attending without really realising why, or just have that daylight moment, like PC and I had, when you ask what is it about it that you actually like about modern speedway.

 

To me... you will never stain this great man's image.

 

 

Wilkie.. yes. Allowed in for nowt. No question. A great team man. He of course is confined to a wheelchair after that 1978 accident while racing for the Aces.

 

Looking at PC... he broke his arm riding for Belle Vue, which I bet even today still troubles him (Cradley, KO Cup Final 1980). He almost lost a leg in a second half race (Belle Vue v King's Lynn, 1977) a week before the world title he was about to defend, rode in pain and finished second. A drain cover at Belle Vue cost him so dearly. He possible could have had two titles to his name.

 

Wilkie, what he gave and what happened to him, will always have respect. But PC gave a hell of a lot for the Aces.

 

And I still recall he had to wear a leg harness for much of his final year, 1986, after that start-of-season incident when Carter took him into the fence on the second turn at Hyde Road. Injuries, riding for the Aces, took a good few years off his career. It was a terrible year, his worst ever, cause I believe by that Carter incident and what subsequently happened affected his mind and body.

 

All this was riding for Belle Vue.

 

But, as has been told, PC does not have to pay to get in Belle Vue... so there must be something else buried in this story. I doubt, reading his piece last week, he actually has 100 people who actually want to go to speedway. Didn't he say it was an embarrassment? Has this 100 figure been made up to smear him? He doesn't seem to be missing his speedway, so is he merely, afterall, being that good sort of person I always thought he was... and actually trying to do something for ex-team mates. It could be that simple. And how many of the magic 100 people PC wants on the list may bring some form of sponsorship to the club?

HAVE seen the list but cannot reveal the names but they are certainly not all ex-riders and I seriously doubt that any would bring sponsorship to the club.

 

Should be quite an interesting article to read. I'll be reading it at 40,000 feet on my way to Australia, no doubt reliving everything that went on in 2016. Although I am always eager to hear someone's opinion, it will be, I assume, only Gordon's side of the story again. What we really need for a balanced argument is to hear the Manchester Council's stance and somehow, I don't think that will happen. Well, for the time being at least.

 

What we are not privy to is anything that is ongoing (between the parties concerned) in relation to the happenings at The NSS in 2016. Perhaps in time we will learn what really happened. However, I fear we may never get the full story.

 

Still something to look forward to and I don't think it will be the last time it raises its head again.

THE problem is that MCC still refuse to answer all the questions or redact sections of documents sent in reply to those raised.

[Fundin5]

PHILIPRISING, on 03 Nov 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

HAVE seen the list but cannot reveal the names but they are certainly not all ex-riders and I seriously doubt that any would bring sponsorship to the club.

THE problem is that MCC still refuse to answer all the questions or redact sections of documents sent in reply to those raised.

 

Appreciate the reply Phil.

[bellevueace]

Because PC was a fabulous racer does not mean he is beyond criticism and in this case he,s wrong, he had the opportunity to attend BV but chose not to, that's his choice so why beef about it. He appears to have turned into a professional offendee, one of those taking offence on others behalf. It also appears from Phil,s article he was instrumental in some others who could have also attended BV not doing so. More fool them being so influenced. The only person sullying his name is the man himself.

[ouch]

Oh dear, ten pages and counting -- I always said Speedway Star was a better read in the close season!

 

Peter Collins was one of the most gifted riders of all time -- in a very, very exclusive 'club' like Ronnie Moore before him and Darcy Ward since.

 

He was almost certainly the prime reason Belle Vue were able to continue in speedway after 1987, and I've always thought his involvement in saving the famous club at that time has been air-brushed a wee bit from their wonderful history.

 

As such, he is entitled to his opinions, and it is better they be aired publicly -- be they right or wrong -- than left as unheard mutterings.

 

Regarding the BV policy, it might have been better to follow the example of Berwick Bandits, where the club announced to the world in 2016 that, excluding guests, every living rider -- whether he was a 15-year legend such as Rob Grant or a wobbler who had only competed in one heat before crashing out -- who had raced as a Bandit since 1968 could, and should apply to the club for a lifetime pass to every meeting at Shielfield.

 

Many have done, and attend matches, often with (paying) friends and family members.

 

A great deal of goodwill has been generated. It isn't rocket science.

They did last year. Heritage Club also allowed your guest in at concession rate.

 

Should be quite an interesting article to read. I'll be reading it at 40,000 feet on my way to Australia, no doubt reliving everything that went on in 2016. Although I am always eager to hear someone's opinion, it will be, I assume, only Gordon's side of the story again. What we really need for a balanced argument is to hear the Manchester Council's stance and somehow, I don't think that will happen. Well, for the time being at least.

 

What we are not privy to is anything that is ongoing (between the parties concerned) in relation to the happenings at The NSS in 2016. Perhaps in time we will learn what really happened. However, I fear we may never get the full story.

 

Still something to look forward to and I don't think it will be the last time it raises its head again.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/23094/12_belle_vue_aces

[moxey63]

Because PC was a fabulous racer does not mean he is beyond criticism and in this case he,s wrong, he had the opportunity to attend BV but chose not to, that's his choice so why beef about it. He appears to have turned into a professional offendee, one of those taking offence on others behalf. It also appears from Phil,s article he was instrumental in some others who could have also attended BV not doing so. More fool them being so influenced. The only person sullying his name is the man himself.

 

Fabulous racer who added hundreds to the gate at Belle Vue. What's wrong with him wanting to do the same now with his list?

 

Just find it strange that we are questioning someone for telling their side of a story, saying we don't really know him apart from his riding, but are quite relaxed in believing the other side of the story, from people we don't really know.

Edited November 3, 2017 by moxey63

[moxey63]

Is there any evidence that riders who would have to pay, attend meetings anyway, such as the 'PC 100'?

 

I have no guilt about downloading some selected music off Youtube and other places 'illegally' and for free because I wouldn't buy that music/album anyway so I am not depriving anyone of any revenue.

 

Similar scenario here, if you see what I mean.

If they don't go anyway, no promoter is losing money by their absence.

 

It annoys me that some people stream speedway from the internet for free, when us mugs pay for them doing so with our satellite subs. Without these subs, why would companies provide our speedway. In a round about way, the freeloaders are damaging live speedway for the ones who pay, and then moan when there isn't a live link for some match or other that night!

 

Being honest though, I am not shy when it comes to downloading from those P2P sites. Just being honest.

[keepturningleft]

 

It annoys me that some people stream speedway from the internet for free, when us mugs pay for them doing so with our satellite subs. Without these subs, why would companies provide our speedway. In a round about way, the freeloaders are damaging live speedway for the ones who pay, and then moan when there isn't a live link for some match or other that night!

 

Being honest though, I am not shy when it comes to downloading from those P2P sites. Just being honest.

 

I'm not on about downloading or streaming speedway, only music - along with about 3 trillion other people.

[moxey63]

 

I'm not on about downloading or streaming speedway, only music - along with about 3 trillion other people.

 

I'll let you off then!

[Halifaxtiger]

A good and fair response from Phil in the Star this week, this is a situation of PC,s own making.

A very fine piece indeed.

 

Lets have some more of your 'points of view', Phil.

[waytogo28]

All ex riders should be admitted to the club they rode for ( the one they rode most matches for or ONE they nominate now - perhaps where they now live ) as at Berwick. But it should be for the rider only , no significant other, no old mates, no mechanics, no ex-promoters and no ex-sponsors. As things are now in UK speedway, everyone else should pay ( unless at the discretion of the current promotion ). Seems fair and reasonable to me. I hugely respect Peter Collins the rider but if he wants a long list of "others" it is not realistic.

[martinmauger]

All ex riders should be admitted to the club they rode for ( the one they rode most matches for or ONE they nominate now - perhaps where they now live ) as at Berwick. But it should be for the rider only , no significant other, no old mates, no mechanics, no ex-promoters and no ex-sponsors. As things are now in UK speedway, everyone else should pay ( unless at the discretion of the current promotion ). Seems fair and reasonable to me. I hugely respect Peter Collins the rider but if he wants a long list of "others" it is not realistic.

Pretty much this ^^. Think the criteria should be ridden for the club for 5 years, or leave it up to individual clubs. I don't buy the 'ex-employee allowed back to collect freebies' argument though, a meeting will go ahead whether ex-riders turn up or not, so the club isn't actually 'losing' anything. They may even 'gain' if more fans couild turn up to see or speak to the rider and a maybe ex-rider buys drinks, food, etc, though I'm aware that bar & catering monies mostly go to stadium owners....

Not stirring the plot but adding my 2p's worth. Morton, Gordon & co did oustandingly well in delivering the stadium in the first place but I wonder if there have been any noise complaints for nearby residents. I sincerely hope not & only ask out of interest in regard to the accoustic barriers incorporated in the new stands which were heralded as a major (no pun intended) feature allowing the stadium being built on this location. If noise isn't an issue then maybe the design of the Belle Vue stands could help with other potential city-centre sites.....

[Halifaxtiger]

All ex riders should be admitted to the club they rode for ( the one they rode most matches for or ONE they nominate now - perhaps where they now live ) as at Berwick. But it should be for the rider only , no significant other, no old mates, no mechanics, no ex-promoters and no ex-sponsors. As things are now in UK speedway, everyone else should pay ( unless at the discretion of the current promotion ). Seems fair and reasonable to me. I hugely respect Peter Collins the rider but if he wants a long list of "others" it is not realistic.

 

 

As well as Phil Rising's response, hidden away amongst the letters in this weeks Star is an excellent reply from Bert Harkins regarding the WSRA/BSPA agreement on entry for ex riders.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

It annoys me that some people stream speedway from the internet for free, when us mugs pay for them doing so with our satellite subs. Without these subs, why would companies provide our speedway. In a round about way, the freeloaders are damaging live speedway for the ones who pay, and then moan when there isn't a live link for some match or other that night.

you could say that bt got a healthy viewing public for free this season , they didnt pay for it so why should we pay to watch it , be different if they paid speedway for it

[moxey63]

you could say that bt got a healthy viewing public for free this season , they didnt pay for it so why should we pay to watch it , be different if they paid speedway for it

 

 

But Dean, who paid for Scott Nicholls, Natalie Quirk, Nigel and Kelvin, the cameras, the crew....

 

BT paid their wages etc and must have wanted some form of return from the speedway viewers, otherwise it will be waste of time and money for them. BT surely won't pay out without getting anything back. When they see many getting free streams or see the the amount of subs brought in by speedway, surely they will ditch us.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

 

 

But Dean, who paid for Scott Nicholls, Natalie Quirk, Nigel and Kelvin, the cameras, the crew....

 

BT paid their wages etc and must have wanted some form of return from the speedway viewers, otherwise it will be waste of time and money for them. BT surely won't pay out without getting anything back. When they see many getting free streams or see the the amount of subs brought in by speedway, surely they will ditch us.

yes they do want a return but they have had it for free this year , the viewing figures are far in excess of what you get for free, i was just making the objective point anyway , if/ when they pay speedway then I think they have a right to be peaved about streaming , I dont subscribe to bt or sky as both are not value for money ,I subscribe to polish NC+ I get all the GPs SWC , Polish extraleague and 1st division + all the magazine programmes and speedway documentaries and now get british league too on 11 sport , not that i watch it but all uk premier football too and films , the only draw back is its in polish (some say thats better than what BT have 😉) all that for £17 a month , now thats VFM Edited November 6, 2017 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[BWitcher]

 

I'm not on about downloading or streaming speedway, only music - along with about 3 trillion other people.

 

Ah.. so it's ok to steal if other folk are doing it.

 

As it happens, you're not anywhere near in the majority either. The overwhelming majority listen legally since the advent of services such as Spotify.

[one of clubs]

It is way out of order that posters on this forum are slagging off an Aces and British legend (the most successful British racer ever by way of world championship honours) who has perhaps not enjoyed the best of health. These people seem to me to be the kind that laugh at the disabled. Serious illnesses can and do change the way people view life. PC is one of my heroes and I would love to see him attend the NSS regularly and speedway is poorer for not having PC there. So PC if you are reading this by some quirk of fate, settle your differences with whoever and come on down to the NSS, as 99% of genuine Aces fans would be absolutely delighted to see you there.

[The White Knight]

It is way out of order that posters on this forum are slagging off an Aces and British legend (the most successful British racer ever by way of world championship honours) who has perhaps not enjoyed the best of health. These people seem to me to be the kind that laugh at the disabled. Serious illnesses can and do change the way people view life. PC is one of my heroes and I would love to see him attend the NSS regularly and speedway is poorer for not having PC there. So PC if you are reading this by some quirk of fate, settle your differences with whoever and come on down to the NSS, as 99% of genuine Aces fans would be absolutely delighted to see you there.

Well said one of clubs.

[moxey63]

It is way out of order that posters on this forum are slagging off an Aces and British legend (the most successful British racer ever by way of world championship honours) who has perhaps not enjoyed the best of health. These people seem to me to be the kind that laugh at the disabled. Serious illnesses can and do change the way people view life. PC is one of my heroes and I would love to see him attend the NSS regularly and speedway is poorer for not having PC there. So PC if you are reading this by some quirk of fate, settle your differences with whoever and come on down to the NSS, as 99% of genuine Aces fans would be absolutely delighted to see you there.

 

Good post. It's sad, how easy some forget what others have given to us.