Stoke

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

32 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

What sticks in my craw is that you are attempting to say that this is down to riders, not the track and I'd say that it is difficult to see how that is not a defence of Stoke (as is quoting that rider). You're certainly not condemning a club that had a meeting abandoned due to the surface and who then cancelled their next meeting 24 hours before hand for the same reason and without any adverse weather (unlike everyone else on this thread).  

Care to do so now?  I think we can both agree that as bad a position as speedway is in it would be far worse if such circumstances were a regular occurrence.

The rider quote I saw in respect of this meeting described Stoke as a 'sh*thole' (his words, not mine), I know Isle of Wight asked for the track inspection because they did not want to send their riders out and its clear the referee thought the meeting had to be abandoned.  

That (taking also into account the number of falls and injuries) sounds like the track was not merely rough, but dangerous. There's a difference.

 

 

No what I’m saying is if different engines and to a point tyres were used then even inexperienced riders would cope no matter what the track was like , the modern engine just isn’t fit for the purpose, as I said in an earlier post if you put NL riders out at Cardiff after 10 heats when the ruts apear it would be carnage, unless it’s smooth and dry they are a pig to handle ,speedway needs to address this problem which is far bigger than one track which you clearly have issues with 

Edited June 24, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Bagpuss]

I'm sure everyone in speedway has issues with Stoke I'd they have any sense, their promotion have been a shambles for years and the track problems have come to a very dangerous head now. They should have their licence revoked until such a time that the BSPA / SCB are satisfied that the place is safe enough for racing. 

I'm sure your views on modern bikes hold water but in this particular case they are of very little consequence otherwise Stoke wouldn't be the only track with their problems. 

[ouch]

The point about engines and tyres though valid should be discussed on a separate topic. 

For us to change the whole speedway world to our mode of thinking will take a hell of a lot of work but I’m led to believe it is being looked into in the UK. 

I think it’s easier (not easy) to rectify the issues with the Stoke circuit which given the call off and press release seems to be being done. 

Fingers crossed, as I’ve seen so good speedway there. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

I'm sure everyone in speedway has issues with Stoke I'd they have any sense, their promotion have been a shambles for years and the track problems have come to a very dangerous head now. They should have their licence revoked until such a time that the BSPA / SCB are satisfied that the place is safe enough for racing. 

I'm sure your views on modern bikes hold water but in this particular case they are of very little consequence otherwise Stoke wouldn't be the only track with their problems. 

 there have ALWAYS been rough tracks and some that have bordered on dangerous, ask people about somerton Park Newport, Weymouth, Wimbledon, Carmarthen, buxton, Exeter, Plymouth, Coventry and loads more, the difference is the engines, riders are even complaining about Somerset now and remember Kings Lynn last year? Two Aussie’s saying the track was dangerous others said it was just grippy, they are made unracable by the bikes, I can remember a meeting I was in at stoke in 97 against hull and the track was rough and I can remember struggling to turn the bike in the first few heats but we got through it because the engines were more forgiving, we are heading down a very slippery slope in oblivion and the bikes are contributing massively to this , stoke are not the only one with track problems but hey instead of getting to the bottom of the issues let’s just close stoke and buxton and Somerset down because  that’s going to solve everything isn’t it 

Edited June 24, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[cityrebel]

Wimbledon was a bit rough in the CL era Deano, but it was as smooth as silk up until 1991!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

27 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Wimbledon was a bit rough in the CL era Deano, but it was as smooth as silk up until 1991!

I was referring to the CL, remember The meeting when they had to put the white line round a hole going into the third turn 

[cityrebel]

Indeed i do. It was bad enough walking on it, let alone riding on it!

[GWC]

There was a time when riders adapted there riding to suit the track conditions.

Its now the reverse and highly tuned engines are part of the problem.

[Sings4Speedway]

There is no debating that engines are part of the problem but these are driven by promotions and the riders they are willing to sign. There are plenty of technically gifted riders about who have been overlooked over the years in favour of those who will wind the throttle fully open and hang on. Taking a moral stance in speedway won't get a rider anywhere and when riders either side of you are using top tier / GP level engines the only option to remain competitive is to follow suit. Sure plenty of riders are far from getting the best out of the engines but there are clubs who wouldn't even look at a rider using a longstroke jawa despite them being far more predictable. Id also like to add that whilst engines are an issue the new silencers are still having a huge effect on producing a safe controllable bike.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

8 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

There is no debating that engines are part of the problem but these are driven by promotions and the riders they are willing to sign. There are plenty of technically gifted riders about who have been overlooked over the years in favour of those who will wind the throttle fully open and hang on. Taking a moral stance in speedway won't get a rider anywhere and when riders either side of you are using top tier / GP level engines the only option to remain competitive is to follow suit. Sure plenty of riders are far from getting the best out of the engines but there are clubs who wouldn't even look at a rider using a longstroke jawa despite them being far more predictable. Id also like to add that whilst engines are an issue the new silencers are still having a huge effect on producing a safe controllable bike.

That is correct about the riders so that’s why the sport needs to impose strict rules on machinery of which there are currently barely any, 

[gazzac]

There's so many good valid points here about the machinery, and Sings point about the silencers has definitely made the current bikes seem less controllable actually narrowing the power band. But at the end of the day the prime cause must be track preparation in whatever conditions are thrown up ,especially with set weather. I can only answer for Eastbourne, our track looked destroyed over the winter by the stock cars, but we always seem to prepare a track that's a bit slick on the inside with plenty of dirt and grippy around the outside and don't remember seeing any dangerous ruts. Although some opposing riders find our tight track a bit ' demanding' it's not normally dangerous. I suppose throttle control comes into play rather than just winding it on. The opposing riders who can master it don't normally complain about the track surface, expect Kemp found it ok last Saturday. So track prep is key, what you can do about machine regs for the NL I don't know, only way to instigate something would probably  be no doubling up which I can't see  happening.

Edited June 25, 2018 by gazzac

[Sings4Speedway]

44 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

That is correct about the riders so that’s why the sport needs to impose strict rules on machinery of which there are currently barely any, 

There are rules in place that are not currently enforced. Its common knowledge that you can take a standard engine up to 600cc plus or that a 350cc motor could be taken to 420cc which would actually help on some tracks as putting down less power would be an advantage. Throw in the number of very dodgy carbs / nitro / fuel abuse which goes undetected every season and you can see why there is little hope of any meaningful restrictions being imposed.

[Old Crusader]

29 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

There are rules in place that are not currently enforced. Its common knowledge that you can take a standard engine up to 600cc plus or that a 350cc motor could be taken to 420cc which would actually help on some tracks as putting down less power would be an advantage. Throw in the number of very dodgy carbs / nitro / fuel abuse which goes undetected every season and you can see why there is little hope of any meaningful restrictions being imposed.

I bow to your superior knowledge of these things but do this still go on in this day and age? I thought nitro was rejected back in the 70s?

[Sings4Speedway]

7 minutes ago, Old Crusader said:

I bow to your superior knowledge of these things but do this still go on in this day and age? I thought nitro was rejected back in the 70s?

Im not going to claim abuse is widespread or that there are persistent abusers or that things haven't gotten a little more sophisticated but there is more than enough funny smelling smoke to say there's a fire.

[KIRKYLANE]

On 6/19/2018 at 5:11 PM, happy potter said:

It's a shame how the place has turned out, it's being run into the ground and it would be a sad state if it did shut but that is all that looms in the future for Stoke.

Needs a new promoter but the current promoter wants ridiculous money for the sale.

It has potential to be a great stadium but not with this current shower running it!

 

If the present owners depart I will happily go back and sadly I think there are many others with a similar mind set.

Unfortunately  I think the monies they make at Stock Cars will prevent this

[East End Fan]

I understand the views about the vulnerability of the new young riders, but it is my opinion that most of the fault lies with the BSPA who

this year ( and probably in the past too) engineered a silly low team building average making it certain that some teams would have to employ

young riders who are not ready.  Not all promoters discard riders easily.  But they are few and far between..   If this year the points average would have been a healthy 42.5

then all the capable riders now without team places would have a job while some of the no hopers at 6 & 7 would still be attending training schools where they belong.

[East End Fan]

As is so often the case on this column,  Sings4Speedway claims to have knowledge which is, IMO, utter rubbish. I attend a lot of Speedway

and have many chats with both riders and various officials, even including an occasional promoter. At no time in recent years has a rider been

accused of running a big engine, or using Nitro ( which was banned donkeys years ago) and an engine cannot be bored out to 600cc. It can legally

be bored out to 510cc although I doubt that many do it. There'd be no walls to the cylinder if you tried to bore out to 600cc 

There is no excuse for poorly prepared tracks. If some tracks, like Eastbourne, can regularly put down very acceptable surfaces, then so can every

other track. Clearly, rough tracks are far less safe whether the engines are different or not. 

[GWC]

Speedway has adapted to the stadia we have and most are ancient.

If the sport started today with the engines available I wonder if a 500cc engine would be deemed safe enough to produce competent and entertaining racing especially in many of our stadia.

 

[wtf]

4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

There is no debating that engines are part of the problem but these are driven by promotions and the riders they are willing to sign. There are plenty of technically gifted riders about who have been overlooked over the years in favour of those who will wind the throttle fully open and hang on. Taking a moral stance in speedway won't get a rider anywhere and when riders either side of you are using top tier / GP level engines the only option to remain competitive is to follow suit. Sure plenty of riders are far from getting the best out of the engines but there are clubs who wouldn't even look at a rider using a longstroke jawa despite them being far more predictable. Id also like to add that whilst engines are an issue the new silencers are still having a huge effect on producing a safe controllable bike.

 

3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

That is correct about the riders so that’s why the sport needs to impose strict rules on machinery of which there are currently barely any, 

 

3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

There are rules in place that are not currently enforced. Its common knowledge that you can take a standard engine up to 600cc plus or that a 350cc motor could be taken to 420cc which would actually help on some tracks as putting down less power would be an advantage. Throw in the number of very dodgy carbs / nitro / fuel abuse which goes undetected every season and you can see why there is little hope of any meaningful restrictions being imposed.

The problem isn't so much those who are cheating, of which there are some, but fewer than most people think, the problem is with the law makers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we used to have a perfectly good rule only 6 years or so that said "No titanium or other super alloys allowed" despite everyone with a brain cell saying allowing it would be a bad idea, (including an article from a well known engine tuner) what did they do? Over turned the rule, the costs go up, the servicing intervals go down, the engines rev higher, become more difficult to ride. etc etc. 

Rev limiters. Been on the table for years, been a solution for years. I've been involved in the discussion about them for years. will not happen because the only way to enforce it is for every promotion to have 14 of them, and issue them like transponders in road racing before a meeting and get them back after wards. But that involves investment, so don't hold your breath.

[uk_martin]

I'm sure that there are plenty of other threads that discuss the major issues that the sport faces on a national scale.

Returning to the matter of STOKE, can anyone advise if the track has been fixed and when fixtures will resume?