jenga Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 and then come near the end of the season , they are totally burnt out and cant be ar$$ed to turn out for their clubs and cheat the fans ! lets just put them on 2 days a week (like normal people) and have a wee 9 to 5 job and use their holidays to have time off and race . get them ALL on that gtr motor or whatever its called , less servicing , less wear n tear cos they are not burning things out . i think they done something like it in the 70,s . plus in 5 years time all the speedway products will be as cheap as chips . just have sooper dooper engines for the big league and cheaper stuff for the next league down and used bikes n stuff for the nl . less money to pay out ,means less entry fees and hopefully running costs . if a rider wants to use a tyre that has already done a meetin g ,let him . yes , i know the round thing does not last that long . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Doesn't matter how much we loathe doubling up , it's here to stay . It only grew into the cancer it became because of the amount of fixture clashes . League speedway in this country is on life support , you have a group of self employed speedway riders who will ride for 2 , 3 or 4 teams with only the pursuit of making money as a concern . If the top league goes to two nights , then that at least will eleviate the fixture clash problem . Understand what you're saying. However, fixture clashes / rain offs / re-arranged fixtures are gonna happen and while there's doubling up we will get the farce that we've had this season. There's another factor. For want of a better term, the "tribal" factor. Supporters/fans of team sports are "tribal" to some extent or other - they identify with the riders (or players in other sports). This "identity" factor is being eroded by doubling up, especially when rules of precedence as to whose asset and which league takes priority etc and the rules aren't followed properly anyway. You then end up with the "Guest Fest" scenario. I find it a real turn off. And its one reason why I have reduced my attendance. So on that basis doubling up doesn't pay. There's also the credibility factor. Supporters of other sports shake their head in disbelief that a rider can represent one team one day and another the next, and even ride as a Guest for one club in a cup tie and ride for the opposition in the return leg. They shake their heads at what they decry as a Mickey Mouse sport that is very badly run and they laugh at it. So on that basis we are doing ourselves no favours in attracting newcomers to a sport which is seen as a laughing stock due to such as doubling up. It is also surely a barrier to amalgamation / all one league. How would doubling up / riding for two or more teams work if they are all riding in the same league and potentially teams having priority over which rider when they face each other in a match. Its a mess. Its a farce. We need to get back to basics, keep it simple. As ragdoll64 says the sport thrived for years and years without doubling up, riders only in one league, in one country, and using one bike. And supporters could identify with the riders as being their club. The mercenary faceless 'no identity' scenario is a massive turn off which I don't want to pay to see. Edited November 2, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owenbros Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Understand what you're saying. However, fixture clashes / rain offs / re-arranged fixtures are gonna happen and while there's doubling up we will get the farce that we've had this season. There's another factor. For want of a better term, the "tribal" factor. Supporters/fans of team sports are "tribal" to some extent or other - they identify with the riders (or players in other sports). This "identity" factor is being eroded by doubling up, especially when rules of precedence as to whose asset and which league takes priority etc and the rules aren't followed properly anyway. You then end up with the "Guest Fest" scenario. I find it a real turn off. And its one reason why I have reduced my attendance. So on that basis doubling up doesn't pay. There's also the credibility factor. Supporters of other sports shake their head in disbelief that a rider can represent one team one day and another the next, and even ride as a Guest for one club in a cup tie and ride for the opposition in the return leg. They shake their heads at what they decry as a Mickey Mouse sport that is very badly run and they laugh at it. So on that basis we are doing ourselves no favours in attracting newcomers to a sport which is seen as a laughing stock due to such as doubling up. It is also surely a barrier to amalgamation / all one league. How would doubling up / riding for two or more teams work if they are all riding in the same league and potentially teams having priority over which rider when they face each other in a match. Its a mess. Its a farce. We need to get back to basics, keep it simple. As ragdoll64 says the sport thrived for years and years without doubling up, riders only in one league, in one country, and using one bike. And supporters could identify with the riders as being their club. The mercenary faceless 'no identity' scenario is a massive turn off which I don't want to pay to see. Which is why we need set racenights with no exceptions. Premiership have a choice of 2 race nights per week so they would have options to fit in rain off's and rearranged fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Which is why we need set racenights with no exceptions. Premiership have a choice of 2 race nights per week so they would have options to fit in rain off's and rearranged fixtures. Appreciated thanks. However, what about the erosion of 'identity' aspect which many such as myself find a turn off and which I won't pay to see, and which has already reduced my attendance. And what about doubling up being a barrier to amalgamation / all one league (either of the existing top two tiers only i.e. 18 teams, or possibly better if amalgamation of the second and third tiers as I don't care for big names nor any prima donna's anyway) and which team would have priority over a rider when two teams in a match face each other and he rides for both. I'm sorry but the whole thing is a mess. Its a farce. Others are rebuked by it and mock the sport and I also find it a complete turn off and not credible and I won't pay to see. Edit (for Owenbros): No. I don't mean teams having different nights, I mean if in the event of amalgamation a rider ends up being contracted to two teams in the same (amalgamated) league e.g. Wolverhampton v Glasgow (in an amalgamated league) and so they obviously in such a match they would face each other on the same night then which team would they ride for. Its that kind of scenario I was referring to. Cheers mate. Edited November 2, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Appreciated thanks. However, what about the erosion of 'identity' aspect which many such as myself find a turn off and which I won't pay to see, and which has already reduced my attendance. And what about doubling up being a barrier to amalgamation / all one league and which team would have priority over a rider when two teams in a match face each other and he rides for both. I'm sorry but the whole thing is a mess. Its a farce. Others are rebuked by it and mock the sport and I also find it a complete turn off and not credible and I won't pay to see. Obviously not a real fan if something as stupid as doubling up is stopping you from supporting your team and the sport, but each to their own, if you hate doubling up so much and you seem to have this idea of one big league working, as Ive said previously, give us an example of how you will fill the 30 UK teams without using the same riders twice, can you name 210 riders that is needed to fill all these teams? The problem is, uk hasnt got the sponsorship/money to attract the big names anymore and there are too many teams and not enough riders, its as simple as that, unless you weaken the product and that will kill the sport even more that it already is, I appreciate your point but doubling up is gonna stay for the foreseeable future, but set racenights will stop the fixture clashes and hopefully in a few years time we can bring back some riders and bring new kids up through so we can maybe reduce the amount of doubling up, but I cant see that happening anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Obviously not a real fan Kindly refrain from personal derogatory remarks. You don't know me and you know nothing about me. If you have to resort to personal insult then you have clearly lost the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owenbros Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Appreciated thanks. However, what about the erosion of 'identity' aspect which many such as myself find a turn off and which I won't pay to see, and which has already reduced my attendance. And what about doubling up being a barrier to amalgamation / all one league and which team would have priority over a rider when two teams in a match face each other and he rides for both. I'm sorry but the whole thing is a mess. Its a farce. Others are rebuked by it and mock the sport and I also find it a complete turn off and not credible and I won't pay to see. You may be missing the point (and I do respect your opinion), if the leagues do not race on the same nights, which is the plan, then there will be no clashes and you will have your team to support. We have had one big league before and it only lasted 1 season so that can't be a long term solution. Separate fixed race nights is new, innovative and definitely worth a try for the reasons that I have given. Surely it can't get any worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Kindly refrain from personal derogatory remarks. You don't know me and you know nothing about me. If you have to resort to personal insult then you have clearly lost the argument. If you were a real fan, you would still turn out to support your team regardless of whether you can identify a rider as your own or not, seems like your just clutching at straws and picking faults with anything you can to justify your actions, I appreciate peoples opinion, everyone is entitled to one, but atleast when certain people voice their frustration they still turn out week in week out for support, And how have I lost the argument when you are the one that Has completely ignored my point about naming 210 riders needed to fill the teams, is that because you cant do it? You just stick to your armchair and moaning online while everyone else supports the team/sport they love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 If you were a real fan Don't be so personal and insulting. If you wish to behave in a juvenile manner then take it elsewhere. If I, and others, do not want doubling up then we don't. Its as simple as that. We don't need you to dictate to us that we shouldn't have that view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Don't be so personal and insulting. If you wish to behave in a juvenile manner then take it elsewhere. If I, and others, do not want doubling up then we don't. Its as simple as that. We don't need you to dictate to us that we shouldn't have that view. Once again youve avoided my point, still waiting for you to tell me where all these riders are gonna come from, and Ive said multiple times I appreciate peoples opinion, what I dont agree with though is you refusing to go over a riders identity when the sport needs fans but still come on here and moan, in my opinion, if you dont help the sport by attending meetings you shouldnt have a say on how the sport should be ran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Once again youve avoided my point Not so. I am quite capable of debating / discussing anything with anybody. However, I will not discuss with someone who acts in a juvenile insulting manner as you have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Not so. I am quite capable of debating / discussing anything with anybody. However, I will not discuss with someone who acts in a juvenile insulting manner as you have done. In other words, you havent got a clue, thought so, have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) In other words, you havent got a clue, thought so To "BenR195": No need for derogatory sarcasm and derisive language. You are, in fact, incorrect. I have an antidote answer for every point you have made. You will also find them already in various threads on this forum as points made by others and one or two myself. I am perfectly capable of debating / discussing anything with anybody. That I do not do so in reply to juvenile and insulting responses is to be expected. Kindly refrain from further derisive language. Thank you. To everyone else: Posters know me by now on here. I can debate / discuss anything with anybody. Especially when its in an adult like manner and many will have a different view and that's fine. Different views are good. But they should, of course, be with a reasonable level of courtesy and respect. I aint perfect and nor is anyone else but we do our best. Generally: If some of us are less than encouraged by the shambles that has been 2017 season with long gaps in the schedule throughout the season, culminating in fixture congestion, "Guest Fest" matches and all the rest then we are (less than encouraged). A few of the end of season matches that were very poorly attended are testimony to that. So myself nor anyone else shouldn't be derided for our attendance being that bit less and told by some disrespectful uncouth jumped up upstart that we have no right to comment nor discuss. This is a discussion forum - of course we are entitled to comment and discuss. Some of us can remember such as the old Hyde Road stadium - now that was a real speedway track and stadium (that some jumped up upstarts these days have never even been in). The sport thrived back then and there was no doubling up. Nor have I ever said anything about 30 teams, I've only mentioned potential amalgamation of two divisions, whether this be the first and second, or the second and third. It might not be such a bad idea to merge the second and third tiers, as I personally think it would be no bad thing to simplify things, cut costs, and have no globe trotting prima donna's. A regular settled team of riders that supporters can identify with as being "their" team would be a start, rather than the different "Guest Fest" list every week and R/R shambles that doubling up has greatly contributed to. And we are all entitled to our opinion, even me. Edited November 2, 2017 by justere2cgoodspeedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonimac Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 Didn't Glasgow legend Steve Lawson double up at Hyde Road? Derek Richardson too? And no doubt Merv Janke & Mick McKeon would have ridden there when visiting with Halifax? I'm showing my age now ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 aye, workington legend steve rode for belle vue . we discover em and glasgow pinch em lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 To "BenR195": No need for derogatory sarcasm and derisive language. You are, in fact, incorrect. I have an antidote answer for every point you have made. You will also find them already in various threads on this forum as points made by others and one or two myself. I am perfectly capable of debating / discussing anything with anybody. That I do not do so in reply to juvenile and insulting responses is to be expected. Kindly refrain from further derisive language. Thank you. To everyone else: Posters know me by now on here. I can debate / discuss anything with anybody. Especially when its in an adult like manner and many will have a different view and that's fine. Different views are good. But they should, of course, be with a reasonable level of courtesy and respect. I aint perfect and nor is anyone else but we do our best. Generally: If some of us are less than encouraged by the shambles that has been 2017 season with long gaps in the schedule throughout the season, culminating in fixture congestion, "Guest Fest" matches and all the rest then we are (less than encouraged). A few of the end of season matches that were very poorly attended are testimony to that. So myself nor anyone else shouldn't be derided for our attendance being that bit less and told by some disrespectful uncouth jumped up upstart that we have no right to comment nor discuss. This is a discussion forum - of course we are entitled to comment and discuss. Some of us can remember such as the old Hyde Road stadium - now that was a real speedway track and stadium (that some jumped up upstarts these days have never even been in). The sport thrived back then and there was no doubling up. Nor have I ever said anything about 30 teams, I've only mentioned potential amalgamation of two divisions, whether this be the first and second, or the second and third. It might not be such a bad idea to merge the second and third tiers, as I personally think it would be no bad thing to simplify things, cut costs, and have no globe trotting prima donna's. A regular settled team of riders that supporters can identify with as being "their" team would be a start, rather than the different "Guest Fest" list every week and R/R shambles that doubling up has greatly contributed to. And we are all entitled to our opinion, even me. So let me get this straight, I call you a fake fan and you tell me to stop being personal and stop insulting you, then you label me as a disrespectful uncouth jumped up upstart and a juvenile, pot calling kettle black in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS550 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 I call you a fake fan Incorrect. I've probably attended more speedway matches than some of us have had hot dinners. How many times did you attend the old Hyde Road stadium? Ever? Yes I have asked you to refrain from personal derogatory insults - and correctly so given your comments which I have correctly noted as being of a juvenile nature. Note also that I have followed correctly to 'attack the post not the poster' as per forum etiquette and the forum rules i.e. by referring to the post content itself (your comments as being of a juvenile nature). You also incorrectly say that I have referred to you when I have not, it appears you have adopted a general note as applying to yourself which is entirely up to you. Conversely you have not followed forum rules and you have called me 'a fake fan' - which is false and which I am offended by. I have therefore reported post #136 to the forum moderators as contravening forum rules which specifically require posters to attack the post not the contributer (poster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANSE Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 THOUGHT THE HEADING WAS GLASGOW 2018 ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 THOUGHT THE HEADING WAS GLASGOW 2018 ? But this is more interesting! Mr.Just puts his case very well. Clearly a well educated man. And not a weej. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Incorrect. I've probably attended more speedway matches than some of us have had hot dinners. How many times did you attend the old Hyde Road stadium? Ever? Yes I have asked you to refrain from personal derogatory insults - and correctly so given your comments which I have correctly noted as being of a juvenile nature. Note also that I have followed correctly to 'attack the post not the poster' as per forum etiquette and the forum rules i.e. by referring to the post content itself (your comments as being of a juvenile nature). You also incorrectly say that I have referred to you when I have not, it appears you have adopted a general note as applying to yourself which is entirely up to you. Conversely you have not followed forum rules and you have called me 'a fake fan' - which is false and which I am offended by. I have therefore reported post #136 to the forum moderators as contravening forum rules which specifically require posters to attack the post not the contributer (poster). (So myself nor anyone else shouldn't be derided for our attendance being that bit less and told by some disrespectful uncouth jumped up upstart that we have no right to comment nor discuss) - seems to me that you are aiming that at me personally since I have mentioned your attendance in previous posts, but hey, I dont get offended over stupid words so say what you like to me, ill take it on the chin, I have my opinion, and i disagree with your actions, not gonna change my mind on what Ive said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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